D&D 5E How many PCs have you had die?

[pming]

Hiya!

The implication that anyone not killing off as many characters as you are means coddling is going on is completely unnecessary, and not even all that accurate.

I, for instance, don't coddle players nor their characters either. Me, the DM with zero PC kill count so far. The explanation is not that I am mistaken and that I do coddle the players or their characters, but that my players have had better luck in surviving the deadly situations they've gotten into (a well-timed good dice roll or two, mixed with a decent plan of action, pulling them through).

While that may be true enough, I don't think it's the norm. I should have mentioned that most of the "kills" in my campaigns tend to come in the form of TPK's (or "everyone but one character" dies)...so that probably inflates the numbers. When 5 characters die of at once, well, that's 5 dead PC's out of 40'ish...from one "bad encounter choice". And I've had multiple TPK's with 5e.

I suppose that "coddle" was a bit of a loaded word to use. What I mean is "CR appropriate encounters" being 'built' by the DM with regards to his PC's. I don't do that sort of "encounter building". I build the world, present it to the players, and they choose what to do. In a game...three sessions ago?...the players traveled 3 days through the forest towards the coast. They were in search of a "pirate cove" that had been 'abandoned' by pirates and other scallywags becuase of some mean-ass blue and red octopi that had taken up residence in the enterance to the sea caves. PC's finally arrive, take a row boat to the shore where they can see a big, wide, cave enterance. They hit the beach, go about 80' and are attacked by a group of "sandlings". Asses are kicked and the surviving 3 PC's high-tail it out of there back to the ship. Nope. Done. They go back to town and head off for something easier.

Now, if I was a "design encounters with CR vs. PC's" type of DM, they would have likely been able to 'win' and progress into the cave system. But, as I said, I don't do that. Anything that scares away pirates has got to be at least sort of dangerous, or have a reason why the pirates are giving up their hidden booty there (for now, anyway). In this case, about 8 to 10 of these Sandlings (CR 1); e.g., a significant danger to a group of 5 1st level PC's!

So...my DM'ing style (not "building encounters to fit the PC's"), and my preference to let the dice fall where they may (not 'fudge' if at all possible or ever during a game)...gives my campaigns a high mortality rate I guess. No matter...its fun and exciting every time, and that's what matters, right?

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Morinth]

Hiya!



While that may be true enough, I don't think it's the norm. I should have mentioned that most of the "kills" in my campaigns tend to come in the form of TPK's (or "everyone but one character" dies)...so that probably inflates the numbers. When 5 characters die of at once, well, that's 5 dead PC's out of 40'ish...from one "bad encounter choice". And I've had multiple TPK's with 5e.

I suppose that "coddle" was a bit of a loaded word to use. What I mean is "CR appropriate encounters" being 'built' by the DM with regards to his PC's. I don't do that sort of "encounter building". I build the world, present it to the players, and they choose what to do. In a game...three sessions ago?...the players traveled 3 days through the forest towards the coast. They were in search of a "pirate cove" that had been 'abandoned' by pirates and other scallywags becuase of some mean-ass blue and red octopi that had taken up residence in the enterance to the sea caves. PC's finally arrive, take a row boat to the shore where they can see a big, wide, cave enterance. They hit the beach, go about 80' and are attacked by a group of "sandlings". Asses are kicked and the surviving 3 PC's high-tail it out of there back to the ship. Nope. Done. They go back to town and head off for something easier.

Now, if I was a "design encounters with CR vs. PC's" type of DM, they would have likely been able to 'win' and progress into the cave system. But, as I said, I don't do that. Anything that scares away pirates has got to be at least sort of dangerous, or have a reason why the pirates are giving up their hidden booty there (for now, anyway). In this case, about 8 to 10 of these Sandlings (CR 1); e.g., a significant danger to a group of 5 1st level PC's!

So...my DM'ing style (not "building encounters to fit the PC's"), and my preference to let the dice fall where they may (not 'fudge' if at all possible or ever during a game)...gives my campaigns a high mortality rate I guess. No matter...its fun and exciting every time, and that's what matters, right?

^_^

Paul L. Ming

I would lose one PC at your table. My next PC would be a rogue, who simply runs away in stealth from everything that smells remotely dangerous. Said rogue would loot the bodies of the stupid PCs who aren't as genre-savvy. Profit.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

To me the game isn't about dice rolls and shining in combat and all of that. It's about a group of people discovering a world and going through trials and tribulations and becoming a team, or even, dare I say it, a family. It isn't a competition, the GM isn't the opponent, and my fellow players aren't vying for the spotlight. It's a cooperative activity, and combat is certainly part of the story, but it's the side dish, not the entree.

In full agreement here!

In my view, a player character death that is just a series of bad dice rolls in a random encounter is a major letdown. **snip** If characters are constantly getting killed, to me it's a sign that the enemies are too overpowered.

Different strokes and all that I think. I can understand your POV, and share some of it, but bad dice rolls are a BIG part of the game. Without them (e.g., if only 'good' dice rolls counted) everyone might as well be playing some heavily narrative-story-game or watching a movie together. It's the bad dice rolls, in my experience, that give just as much awesomeness as the good dice rolls. When a group can remember fondly both times when Cheryl's character critically fumbled, then critically hit herself, and died from it...and remember when Curtis's tiny little 1st level pixie fairy thief pulled off some amazing sneaking rolls, got a critical hit with his backstab, and killed the bugbear chieftain without any of his bodyguards noticing, then successfully snuk out of the area back to the party? Well, both GOOD and BAD rolls played a part in those awesome story elements. They are the randomness that binds the whole campaign narrative together. You can't drop one without the whole campaign suffering. IMNSHO.

As for it being a "sign that the enemies are too overpowered"...I'd just like to add an "...or the players are too overconfident". If the DM runs his games with "CR balanced encounters only", then I can totally see why a player in this type of campaign may get annoyed with dying 'all the time'. But if the player doesn't get used to this, and in stead gets used to trusting the DM to have a "internal campaign logic" for his game, then I believe everyone at the table benefits greatly. The players know that if their 3rd level characters hear of "A tower now inhabited by a vampire!", they know to double and triple check to see if it actually is a vampire (or likely). If the answer is yes...then the PC's shouldn't go exploring that tower! In games where the DM "builds CR appropriate encounters", no worries...off you go! I mean, the DM wouldn't use an actual vampire...everyone would die and that 'wouldn't be fun'.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Morinth]

The other side of the coin is having a known "killer GM" and avoiding pretty much all combat. That's what I would do. If my character is just grist for the mill, she's not going to go out like that. She'll thwart the system somehow.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I suppose that "coddle" was a bit of a loaded word to use. What I mean is "CR appropriate encounters" being 'built' by the DM with regards to his PC's. I don't do that sort of "encounter building". I build the world, present it to the players, and they choose what to do.

I do the same thing, and there have still been no deaths that lasted more than a minute. And I've actually used NPCs to goad them into fights that were way above their pay grade, because they were trying to get the party killed - like a fiendish patron who prompted them to attack the Lich of the setting... in its lair... when they were level 12. Even when the Lich got the drop on them, and hit them with a Meteor Swarm that put 60% of the party on the ground in one round. Even when it was using Legendary Actions with Chill Touch to turn off their access to healing.

PCs are just ludicrously resilient in this edition.

 

[Azzy]

None, thus far. Come really close—including an almost TPK (if the last character—a mage no less—had dropped, their enemies would have made sure the PCs were all dead).

 

[GX.Sigma]

I think I've killed 7 5e characters as the DM (including the playtest, not counting Mines of Madness). Let's see if I can remember the circumstances:

• Balrog Holderheck, Dwarf Fighter. Swarmed by endless trolls while lost in the lower levels of Undermountain and unable to get a long rest for multiple days. (Kinda the module's fault, but they didn't even really try to go back up the elevator that took them down, so I think it's fair enough)
• Tasim Mangletoes, Halfling Rogue. Ran off alone during massive beach invasion off the Isle of Dread. (Totally the player's fault)
• Chani, Elf Monk. Mashed by giants while the rest of the party turned invisible and hid. (Maybe my fault; the combat turned south after all the NPC allies died except Drizzt--I know, I know)
• Hellrond, Elf Wizard, and Fang Samson, Half-orc Ranger. Disintegrated and death-rayed respectively by a beholder, after attacking it while it was trying to retreat. (Totally their fault)
• Malum, Human Barbarian. Ambushed by incorporeal undead coming out of a wall. (Totally my fault)
• Oak, Ambiguously Human Barbarian. Insta-boiled by the random Dragon Turtle in the Temple of the Crashing Wave. (Probably my fault)

Ah, good times.

As a player, I've never lost a character, probably because I've played 5e like twice.

 

[Dom de Dom]

Two of my PCs have died

1. My first 5e game after a very long hiatus ... since second edition. In a dungeon full of orcs my grizzled human ranger Garret was scouting and saw a Red Wizard doing a ritual. He charged and tried to slay him swiftly but the suits of armour along the walls animated and made mincemeat out of him =(

2. My courageous eladrin EK/Pally Kaillan died in the final battle with a mindflayer. He misty stepped through the illithids wall of force defence but fumbled his attacks and failed miserably to save against the mighty psionic blast that followed.... cue brain munching noises!

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

So...my DM'ing style (not "building encounters to fit the PC's"), and my preference to let the dice fall where they may (not 'fudge' if at all possible or ever during a game)...gives my campaigns a high mortality rate I guess. No matter...its fun and exciting every time, and that's what matters, right?

A note you may find interesting:

I also do not build encounters to fit the PCs (the players choose what to try and fight, and what to avoid fighting because they don't have much hope of surviving the battle), and I fudge precisely never - and my 5th edition campaigns still come in at that crisp zero PC kills number.

 

[ExploderWizard]

As a player, my only 5E character is still alive.

As a DM, there has been one death in my Friday Mystara campaign, two deaths in my Tuesday FLGS Greyhawk campaign, and an almost TPK of four characters in a short campaign where only a single character made it out of Wave Echo Cave alive.