How many prestige classes?

[1337 h4xor]

i beleive the problem the above poster specifically was complainging about is waiting till after character creating and advancement then all of a sudden saying oh you cant take that class i dont like it. That is something that i as a dm would spell out at character creation and would certainly let anyone who seems to be venturing in that direction know.

 

[Oni]

When your DM threatens you with physical violence, you've probably crossed the line.

Seriously though, in my opinion once you go past two character concept has probably gone completely out the window in favor of nonsensical power gaming. As long as you can make a good case for why you would have those classes (and some don't require that much justification) then what the hey go for it, have fun its your character. Of course that is just my philosophy, some DM's are more lax, some more tyrannical.

 

[Oni]

i beleive the problem the above poster specifically was complainging about is waiting till after character creating and advancement then all of a sudden saying oh you cant take that class i dont like it. That is something that i as a dm would spell out at character creation and would certainly let anyone who seems to be venturing in that direction know.

Small Hijack, disallowing something at the last moment out of the blue is one of the most annoying things I have ever encountered, enough so to make me stop playing with a DM. For instance I was in a campaign where I was playing a transmuter (gave up evocation), who was from a gypsy like people and her main schtick was hexes and curses. I played that character until 7th level all the while merrily ranting about how my character concept would come into its own when I could turn people into frogs and bestow curses. This was said directly to the DM on multiply occasions. Well 7th level rolls around and I say finally made it, my time in the sun and I tell the DM the spells I chose for leveling up were polymorph other and bestow curse. He says, "Oh yeah, I don't allow those spells in my game, I think they're a little overpowered." After over a year in this game working toward that point I cannot even begin to describe how ticked I was. I beg of all of you, never do this to a player it is inhuman and cruel, and if they are not as nice a person as I am they may very well bludgeon you. Okey doke, I return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[demon_jr]

i pretty much agree with everyone on both counts:

1. a DM is entitled to alter rules or disallow certain classes, since it is their campaign after all

2. it can be upseting when a DM disallows a certain rule or class in mid-campaign

i'll drop it from there since i don't really wanna go on a rant. plus, i don't think this really answer's the original poster's question



plus, contrary to some of my remarks, my current DM is the best one i have played with so far and i am amazed at the quality of his games. i really enjoy the DM i have and hope he keeps up the good work.

 

[hong]

I thought the limit was 77 PrC's for any one NPC or PC

You frickin' munchkin. 76, tops.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Hm... there should be a bit of etiquette for both sides:

A DM should not forbid something in the last moment, unless he has a _very_ good reason for this! "I don't like that PrC" is no very good reason. After all, the player has to play the PrC, not you. Even if you have your reasons, look if you can't alter it so it suits your campaign, or takes away the reasons why you forbid it (it won't be a problem to reduce the HD or give him one less good save, or take away some caster levels).

A Player should not confront the DM with a fait accompli! You probably know in advance what you want, so show it to the DM. So he can alter what he doesn't like, say what he hates about the PrC (and you can counterargument!), and if push comes to shove, you have enough time to take another PrC. Also, this gives the DM enough time to plan the introduction of the necessary facts and persons into the campaign: Your plans for becoming an assassin (as with the DMG PrC) will be much easier to accomplish if there's an assassin's guild somewhere. (Although our DM is very liberal about this: We already had two cases where he even allowed changing feats or taking feats and skills before class so one player or the other could qualify for a PrC we didn't have before: That was verdant lord, since MotW came out last, and Elven High Magi, which a friend of mine I know from some forums made, I changed to suit the campaign and the DM changed for the same reason)

Depending on the PrC, one RPG prerequisite or the other are always a good thing: if it's a PrC associated with an organization, you have to meet them, and gain admission. If it's something that focuses on some abilities, like weapon master, deepwood sniper, or the like, you must show that you train the art, or find someone already belonging to the PrC in order to learn some of the secrets.

On the issue of multiclassing: Personally, I think that you don't need more than 3 base classes and 2 prestige classes. And that's extreme already, and 1/2 or 2/1 could be enough already. I'd allow it if it fits the character (and some PrC's are made to be pushed in between, like the 5-level-classes).


Well, as I said, we have a generous DM: he didn't just allow me to take a 2nd PrC, he advised me to (mainle because it really fitted the character): I play a champion of the elven People and of Corellon Larethian. I started with 5 levels of fighter, then one level of wizard, to become a bladesinger after that. When I reached the upper half of the PrC, I started to plan what to do after 10th level. I first choose the bladedancer (which he banned at first cause he wanted no oriental material, but then agreed upon it because it fitted). Towards the end of my bladesinger career (for the time being, cause of epic levels), I discarded that class (after fulfilling all the prerequisites, but that was OK, since they fit my character anyway) and at level-up to 17th (Ftr5/Wiz1/Bld10/and then some), when I just wanted to do the fighter, he adviced me to chose divine champion. And I saw that I unconciously chose my skills to fulfill the prerequisites (Knowledge(religion)), that I gain the powers of the figher and something in addition, and that it really fitted the character. Now I'm Ftr5/Wiz1/Bld10/Chm2 of Corellon Larethian.
Well, story hour's over, on with your regular thread.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Playtesters almost never playtest a character with multiple prestige classes - hence, allowing a character to take multiple PrCs is often unbalanced. Worse is allowing PrCs from more than one source.

Also, there's a limit of 15 PrCs before epic level . You need to be at least 5th-level to take a PrC (if you can do so earlier, then either the PrC had an oversight, or you're using the Cosmopolitan feat, multiclassing, or otherwise trying to twink to get the PrC early - don't take one before 6th-level). In this case, you would be class5/PrC1/PrC1/PrC1...

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Playtesters almost never playtest a character with multiple prestige classes - hence, allowing a character to take multiple PrCs is often unbalanced. Worse is allowing PrCs from more than one source.

Also, there's a limit of 15 PrCs before epic level . You need to be at least 5th-level to take a PrC (if you can do so earlier, then either the PrC had an oversight, or you're using the Cosmopolitan feat, multiclassing, or otherwise trying to twink to get the PrC early - don't take one before 6th-level). In this case, you would be class5/PrC1/PrC1/PrC1...

The Forsaker from MotW could be taken with 3 levels of any class, provided that you are human. But then again, I would almost allow to make it a base class, without any requirements. The restrictions they have equal the benefits out, IMHO. Not being allowed to benefit from any magic is harsh in your usual D&D campaign (and without magic, there are no forsakers, naturally).

 

[hammymchamham]

You frickin' munchkin. 76, tops.

Ok, what ever you say hong

 

[demon_jr]

Playtesters almost never playtest a character with multiple prestige classes - hence, allowing a character to take multiple PrCs is often unbalanced. Worse is allowing PrCs from more than one source.

the character i play now has the following prestige classes:

holy liberator/bladedancer/shadowdancer/gladiator

(i know, it's min-max, but i'm not trying to show-off and i do have a great DM who is very strict on game balance)

from personal experience (and in my own opinion), although you get some cool powers from taking multiple prestige classes, depending on the ones you take, you lose a lot depending on the type of character you want to play.

for example (it may not be a good one though), suppose you have a fighter that picks up multiple prestige classes that are geared towards fighters. usually the first save bonus is a fortitude save. that being the case, depending on how far you progress in a particular prestige class, you may have really high fortitude saves, but very low saves compared to another fighter of your class level.

the same could be said for a player that wanted a fighter type of character, but picked multiple prestige classes that had the base attack bonus progression of a rogue or wizard, thus, making his base attack bonus progression much weaker than a fighter of equivalent level.

i had to rethink the classes i was going to pick since the epic level handbook came out. since your BAB stops rising after 20th level, i had to figure out which classes would raise my BAB high enough to get 4 attacks before 21st level.


on another note, i agree wholeheartedly with what KaeYoss posted regarding rules of etiquette between players and DM's.