D&D 5E How Many Spaces on a Grid Does Cloud of Daggers Effect?

[DND_Reborn]

Regarding Web:

Even if web isn't anchored to a wall, it can be anchored to a floor or ceiling to still cover much of a grid. It can even be a mass on an open floor (like a net spread out).

If the webs aren’t anchored between two solid masses (such as walls or trees) or layered across a floor, wall, or ceiling, the conjured web collapses on itself, and the spell ends at the start of your next turn. Webs layered over a flat surface have a depth of 5 feet.

The only time a web would collapse in on itself is if an anchor point is moved somehow, or it is cast in open-air like a thrown net.

That's how I run it anyway...

 

[S'mon]

"So you're carefully placing it in between your enemies, to avoid hurting them? OK."

 

[Stoutstien]

It's such a weak spell, I've changed it to a 10 ft square so it can cover a few squares without wasting time trying so place it so maybe it affect an extra creature if it stands just right.

setting aside the issue of positioning on/off a grid it's one of the best shredders available. Upcasts well, no save(bypasses LR), multiple ticks per round, rarely resisted, and widely available.

 

[jgsugden]

...What we now have assumes a grid is always in use, ...

This is incorrect. The Grid is an OPTIONAL rule in 5E that almost everyone uses - and there are several different variants on it with none of them being the official rule. Spanning several books, the guidance for how to determine if you're caught in a spell, how spells work when cast by different sized casters, etc... are a bit too unclear. They can do better.

As we move forward into a 'more virtual' environment, we may seem them decide to again not use the grid - and that may be ok so long as they still make the rules assume you're using minis / avatars rather than putting Theater of the Mind as the default. I can use strings to measure distance, or use a grid to measure distance - but I want a set of rules that clearly values precision and clarity.

 

[LordEntrails]

It's simple for me. Yes a CoD takes up a 5ft cube. That cube can be placed anywhere on the grid the caster chooses (so yes, it can take up parts of 4 different grid squares). But, the occupant of each square can chose which part of their grid square they are in.

So, if a caster choses to place the CoD s it is in 4 adjacent squares where 4 different goblins are, ten the 4 goblins can each chose if they are in the part of the square that is affected. So, from the way I run it, it would be stupid for a caster to try to affect more than one target with the CoD.

The power of the CoD is not the number of targets it affects, but rather that it denies terrain (one square, such as a door way or narrow bridge etc) to the enemy and that it always hits, and is of a damage type rarely resisted.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

This is incorrect. The Grid is an OPTIONAL rule in 5E that almost everyone uses

It doesn't matter what they say is optional. If the game design is based around measuring things in squares-- excuse me, 5ft cube measurements, they've made the thing with a grid in mind.

If Theater of the Mind was the intended default, we'd surely have a narratively useful way to measure things - you would call things 'near' with its own rules definition, instead of the GM deciding on a whim whether something can be reached with 15ft of remaining movement or not, how many opponents are caught in a 5ft radius sphere, and races being differentiated based on whether they have a 25ft or 30ft movement speed.

 

[jgsugden]

It doesn't matter what they say is optional. If the game design is based around measuring things in squares-- excuse me, 5ft cube measurements, they've made the thing with a grid in mind.

If Theater of the Mind was the intended default, we'd surely have a narratively useful way to measure things - you would call things 'near' with its own rules definition, instead of the GM deciding on a whim whether something can be reached with 15ft of remaining movement or not, how many opponents are caught in a 5ft radius sphere, and races being differentiated based on whether they have a 25ft or 30ft movement speed.

That is a perspective you can take, but the rules for playing on a grid are a variant in the PHB and there are variants on the this variant rule provided in the DMG.

Regardless, the game design is not measured around squares. Some spells reference 5 ft cubes, but it is more common to talk about cones, spheres, radius, diameter, and other 'non-square' measurements. These varied methods of describing distance are the very thing you identify as missing - a narratively useful way to measure things. It may not work entirely clearly in the absence of a miniature representation - but it is what they provided.

 

[Ancalagon]

I just think it's ... so frustrating that such a simple question doesn't have a clear answer. One thing I really hope we will see in 5.5 is clearer writing

 

[S'mon]

It doesn't matter what they say is optional. If the game design is based around measuring things in squares-- excuse me, 5ft cube measurements, they've made the thing with a grid in mind.

If Theater of the Mind was the intended default, we'd surely have a narratively useful way to measure things - you would call things 'near' with its own rules definition, instead of the GM deciding on a whim whether something can be reached with 15ft of remaining movement or not, how many opponents are caught in a 5ft radius sphere, and races being differentiated based on whether they have a 25ft or 30ft movement speed.

It's pretty obvious that "GM deciding on a whim" is the 5e core mechanic.

 

[MarkB]

The way I see it, if they wanted it to affect four squares, why wouldn't they just make it a 10-foot cube centred on a grid intersection?