How many times...?

How many times?

  • None, you're not allowed to burn faces off unless you are evil!

    Votes: 14 10.9%
  • Once.

    Votes: 11 8.6%
  • More than once.

    Votes: 11 8.6%
  • More than 5 times.

    Votes: 13 10.2%
  • It doesn't matter how many times you tell her, only evil people burn off other people's faces!

    Votes: 79 61.7%

diaglo said:
i have numerous times. i didn't feel threatened. i felt pity.

Diaglo-

I need a sanity check here, dude. You have had a "crazy person [throw] trash and screaming at [you]" *numerous* times? Where the heck do you live, man?? :eek:

I have heard random screaming, and on one occasion even screaming invictives, but never thrown trash!

EDIT: Spelling gaffe.
 
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werk said:
"For example, in 1700s Britain, there were 222 crimes which were punishable by death, including crimes such as cutting down a tree or stealing an animal." -wikipedia
Look at how many countries still exist that possessing drugs or dressing inappropriately is punishable by death. Are they evil?

Your character isn't the law. And I don't think your campaign is set in 1700s Britian with their morality. Basically, you've asked your question, you got your answer. I'm sorry it was not the answer you wanted.
 

werk said:
Throwing trash back is counter-productive, to say the least, it justifies her behavior and says it's OK to throw trash and scream at people.

So what behavior is your character justifying? I guess you'd better hope that homeless people don't learn fireball.

If the worst thing that happens in your realm (I'm assuming you're the law) is that people throw trash at each other and call each other names, you've got it pretty good.

Alignment issues aside, perhaps you should consider hiring a squad of 1st level warriors to take care of nuisances like trash-throwing homeless people. They could have thrown her in jail for the day. That's as much of a deterrent as you need for most people. If you want to emulate history, just have your goon-squad clear the street before you walk down it in the first place.

Get two bodyguards with tower shields to block thrown trash, then you can concentrate on real criminals.
 

Agent Oracle said:
(sigh)

Yes. Let's run through this with a little teleplay...
That is awesome!


Here's what happened.
Crazy Old lady: Millenium Hand and Shrimp! (throws garbage at party)
KINDA good PC: "Argh! please stop doing that!" (makes diplomacy check)
Crazy Old lady: Millenium Hand and Shrimp! (throws garbage at party)
KINDA good PC: "Argh! please stop doing that!" (makes diplomacy check)
Crazy Old lady: Millenium Hand and Shrimp! (throws garbage at party)
KINDA good PC: "Argh! please stop doing that!" (makes diplomacy check)
Crazy Old lady: Millenium Hand and Shrimp! (throws garbage at party)
KINDA good PC: "Argh! please stop doing that!" (makes diplomacy check)
Crazy Old lady: Millenium Hand and Shrimp! (throws garbage at party)
KINDA EVIL pc: "Stop or i'll burn your face off!"
Crazy Old lady: Millenium Hand and Shrimp! (throws garbage at party)
KINDA good PC: "Argh! please stop doing that!" (makes diplomacy check)
Crazy Old lady: Millenium Hand and Shrimp! (throws garbage at party)
KINDA EVIL pc: "Stop or i'll burn your face off!"
Crazy Old lady: Millenium Hand and Shrimp! (throws garbage at party)
KINDA good PC: "Argh! please stop doing that!" (makes diplomacy check)
Crazy Old lady: Millenium Hand and Shrimp! (throws garbage at party)
KINDA EVIL pc: "Stop or i'll burn your face off!"
Crazy Old lady: Millenium Hand and Shrimp! (throws garbage at party)
KINDA EVIL pc: "Stop or i'll burn your face off!"
Crazy Old lady: Millenium Hand and Shrimp! (throws garbage at party)
REALLY EVIL PC: (Burns woman's face off)

Funny thing is that our group jokingly calls itself the Company of Celestial Brine Shrimp.
 

werk said:
How is this any different than "Stop or I'll shoot"? How many times do you have to say stop or I'll shoot before you are allowed to shoot?

I've run into this problem with some DMs. You see, a DM has no reason to make a person behave realistically. He has an infinite number of NPCs. You've only got one PC. He could decide that a little old 80 year old grandmother decides she wants to harass your 15th level hulking barbarian without fear of death, and no amount of intimidation will stop her.

DMs do this to provoke PCs into doing regrettable actions. "I push the old lady down and call her a crazy hag." "Hah hah, her hip breaks and she dies. You killed the old lady, the town hates you!"
 

ehren37 said:
Another reason why alignment is a dated concept that should be removed from future editions. Play your character how you think they would react.

Note that alignment just means how your character acts OVERALL. A single evil act hardly justifies an alignment change. Neither does a single noble act.
QFT
 


Seems to me that an appropriate LN action* might be physically restraining C.O.L., wrestling C.O.L. to ground, shoving her away from the garbage, tossing a sleep spell her way**, or things like these. The physical stuff might cause a few bumps and bruises, but not too much. A chaotic neutral might well do a lot more, up to and including burning her face off, but that's because chaotic neutrals are craaaaaazy.

I think werk's problem with the opinions listed so far (which probably includes mine) is that there seems to be a "good" route and an "evil" route, and alignment should offer a middle road, where people do some good deeds and some bad deeds. But the thing is, there are going to be some actions which aren't really redeemable (i.e. if a character vivisects and tortures a peasant whose only fault was not bowing quickly enough, ain't no way he can be considered good, even if he does donate to charitable causes and give free tutoring lessons). There are some actions which really do set someone from one alignment to another, and a LN burning someone's face off qualifies.

I've gotta say, though, that I find the off-hand way it was described hilarious. This is quite possibly an effect of my overdosing on PARANOIA.

*werk DID say LN, right? I coulda sworn I saw that somewhere...
**werk's character might not have had sleep spells, but non-damaging combat spells, like stun or hold or something like that.
 

Ehren37's opinion is pretty much the same as mine on the first part. I don't use alignment as written, and it's not bad advice for these situations.

However, I can see the wisdom in some folks' way of interpreting this. How do you really know that a demon is Chaotic Evil if he lives in the Abyss and all he ever does is kill other demons? The answer is probably that the demon has the potential to do Chaotic Evil more so than knowing anything about his personal history. And so I can see some sense in figuring that if someone fireballs some crazy person for a slight insult, you could interpret that (much to the objections of the player probably) as that the PC has always been Chaotic Evil.

However most people in these situations have their characters behave according to their own principles (as Werk seems to allude to when he brings up real-world issues). This means that you're really telling the *player* that you think he's chaotic evil - and that usually doesn't go over well.

Lukelightning's advice on this I also find sound. I can't rule out from reading the incident that the DM is just picking on the player, although I assumed that the "insane" thing might have ruled that out. As I find myself saying often lately - if you think that a fellow player (including the DM) is being a jerk towards you, IMO it's best to handle that outside of the game.
 

jmucchiello said:
Nobody shouts "stop or I'll shoot" (nobody trained in law enforcement anyway). You can shout "stop or I'll shoot" a million times. Not stopping (assuming you mean stop running) is not a valid reason to shoot. If not stopping involves choaking someone, then lethal force may be a valid response. This situation has little to do with D&D, though.

Jersey in the house!

I can't really argue in correct terms, (I don't like cop shows) so I'll set up the scenario.

Detective is investigating the murder of authoritarian officials.
Detective leaves the crime scene and is approached by angry mob led by disheveled, dirty person with wild eyes, throwing items at the detective.
Detective says whatever he's supposed to and the leader continues to advance, throwing items and screaming obsceneties.
Detective draws his weapon, brandishes it, and says whatever he's supposed to again.
The leader continues to advance, throwing items and screaming obsceneties.

Does he wait to be surrounded and overtaken, or what is the correct reponse? (he and his partner are alone in a far-removed rural area, no backup, no support)


p.s., I think LukeLightning hit the nail on the head ;)
 

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