How much does an inn cost to buy?

[S'mon]

For the many years that I've played D&D it's been a constant bane working out how much such and such might cost.

At the moment I just say that 1gp = $40

From where I come from -- in the modern day world -- an inn would cost a minimum of $500,000.

So, $500,000 ÷ 40 = 12,500gp.

Conversion from real-world prices might not give perfect results (unskilled labourers in USA 2004 certainly earn more than D&D medieval commoners) but frankly I think it's one of the better ways of doing it. Certainly much much better than the Monte Cook approach of basing everything around the PCs and their wealth-by-level table.

 

[S'mon]

House, 450sq.ft., dirt/wood/thatch, flat 20% carriage, Normal style "appropriate for average craftsmen", = 987gp completed in just over a week...

(snip)

...We think the building system is very good at generating a respectable figure for structures....

OK, a hovel that takes a week to build costs **987gp** and you think that's reasonable?

Compare to 1650gp cost of a suit of masterwork full plate armour. AIR I recall a contemporary account of the Black Prince in the Scottish campaigns musing that he, wearing (in D&D terms) masterwork plate, wore "The wealth of twelve Scottish farms on his back". - The point being that Scottish farms were poor and the English relatively rich. Still, I think there's a huge amount of evidence that the DMG & MMS:WE building figures are roughly 10 times too high.

 

[CalrinAlshaw]

Material modifier is a percentage (14% instead of x 14) so continuing with that in mind....

Material Cost: (Material Modifier .14 x Initial Estimate 9300 gp) = 1302
Base Price: (Initial Estimate 9300 + Material Cost 1,302 gp) = 10,602 gp

Carriage
Carriage Cost: (Base Price 10,602 gp x .2 flat fee) = 2,120 gp

Style
Interior Style Cost: (Base Price 10,602 gp x 1.6 Style Modifier, Normal) = 16,963 gp
Exterior Style Cost: (Base Price 10,602 gp x 1.15 Style Modifier, Normal) = 12,192 gp

Final Cost: Base Price 10,602 gp + Carriage Cost 2,120 gp + Interior Style Cost 16,963 gp + Exterior Style Cost 12,192 gp = 41,877 gp

So the final cost for the inn is 41,877 gp and would probably pay for itself in 10 years... and.. i just got my computer fixed and just found out that MMS:WE is up for an Origins award!

joe b.

Out of curiosity, bringing up the cost of Inn's again, why does it cost 12,192gp to whitewash the walls and hang a sign outside the entrance, that is the main style of most buildings that were mid-level wealth. Now, I could see the interior cost being quite high, after all you need beds, tables, chairs, a bar, an entire kitchen to furnish etc. But that still seems extremely high...is the owner buying an innfull of exotic rare woods and commissioning the best crafters for this project?

Calrin Alshaw

 

[CalrinAlshaw]

OK, a hovel that takes a week to build costs **987gp** and you think that's reasonable?

Compare to 1650gp cost of a suit of masterwork full plate armour. AIR I recall a contemporary account of the Black Prince in the Scottish campaigns musing that he, wearing (in D&D terms) masterwork plate, wore "The wealth of twelve Scottish farms on his back". - The point being that Scottish farms were poor and the English relatively rich. Still, I think there's a huge amount of evidence that the DMG & MMS:WE building figures are roughly 10 times too high.

That was for a nice comfy 1-3 room house with a thatched roof..with 450sq.ft.
One thing I'm going to mention, most people who lived in tiny villages all helped each other keep the village in 1 piece. They'd help build a small home for 2 newly-weds, thered be a thatcher, a butcher (usually mid-wealth), maybe a tavern or inn, a smithy, then everyone else did for themselves.

Other than that stuff, a nice little 2 room cottage 15x30 or 20x22.5 for 987gp is a bit much, but that is for wood walls and such, which was above average.

Calrin Alshaw

Calrin Alshaw

 

[S'mon]

That was for a nice comfy 1-3 room house with a thatched roof..with 450sq.ft.

Define 'comfy'!
My mother grew up in a 2-room house in Londonderry in the 1940s, her grandmother had a 1-room house. In US terms they were 1 step above 'poor white trash' in that they tried to keep the place clean, they had a field out the back where they grew potatoes. Definitely not middle-class though.

Going back to the middle ages, the house as described seems maybe that of a 5-person peasant family with a decent amount of land (earning maybe 5sp/day equivalent in the countryside), or a skilled artisan in the city earning around 7gp/week, 1gp/day (per PHB craft rules). I can't conceive of it costing more than 100gp* in D&D terms. A really crummy dwelling, the equivalent of modern shanty-town shacks, might be worth 5-10gp.

*I guess in the city, land scarcity might drive the price higher. x10 seems unlikely, though.

 

[Agemegos]

Other than that stuff, a nice little 2 room cottage 15x30 or 20x22.5 for 987gp is a bit much, but that is for wood walls and such, which was above average.

I'll say it is a bit much! Even at 1 gp per day it is the price of three years' labour. And therefore the equivalent of £5 in mediaeval money. You could in fact buy a well-built row-house in York (including the real estate it was built on) for three year's labourer's wages. Or build two and a half 2-storey cottages (with materials from the estate).

 

[The Gryphon]

Just one thing...

lyre of building: 13000 gp.

Produces the effect of 600 man-days of work in an hour of playing.

Which sort of blows holes in most systems methods of determining the price of a structure, not least of which those that suggest any value over about 13,000 gp for any one building that's not of ludicrous size.

Mind you, that includes D&D's own systems.

How exactly does that "blow holes" in the system, 600 mandays is only 85 labourers working for 1 week. They cost 59gp 5sp in wages, and if you feed them the equivalent of poor inn meals costing 59gp 5sp [what they're likely used to eating], that comes to 119gp/week.

In the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook [D&D's own system] it specifically states that labour acounts for 30% of the building cost under the lyre's usefulness (pg. 45). In my opinion you're getting a great deal with the lyre reducing costs by that amount.

 

[ichabod]

Look at post #18 in this thread. That is your post, is it not? Look at the quoted text in it. The subject was very definitely an inn costing 272,000 gp.

I notice that you don't reference where I talked about that exact post. The quoted text in that post contained a broad generalization about all game designers, so was clearly not only about an inn costing 272,000 gp. And, AS I HAVE NOTED BEFORE my text in that post was clearly talking about the 10,000 gp inn I quoted in post #3.

But you are obviously not interested in any of these facts, as they have been stated before and you have ignored them. But you know, I don't know why I expected any different. This just seems to be the accepted level of "discourse" on ENWorld these days. And frankly, it's just not worth it any more.

 

[Sledge]

What I wouldn't give for a book that made a believable economy based pricing list and building costs available.

 

[Agemegos]

The quoted text in that post contained a broad generalization about all game designers, so was clearly not only about an inn costing 272,000 gp.

You are right, it was not. In the post from which you quoted I had listed a number of representative prices for provisions and household fittings. I invited a comparison of the ratios among these and their relation to wages with the relative and real prices of such items listed in the PHB (or, in my experience, just about any other gaming source). Incidentally, these absurd prices are what you seem to have based your estimates of the turnover of an inn ono.

But you're so vain, you thought the post was about you. They all have to be, don't they?