How much for the Bride in the Window?

AeroDm

First Post
My players have come to a situation where I need to determine how large a dowry would be granted for the bride of a duke. Initially I figured it would be some where around 10,000 gp, but that was a complete guess. Assuming a normal D&D economy can anyone give me an approximate guess?
 

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AeroDm said:
My players have come to a situation where I need to determine how large a dowry would be granted for the bride of a duke. Initially I figured it would be some where around 10,000 gp, but that was a complete guess. Assuming a normal D&D economy can anyone give me an approximate guess?

IMHO, 10k would be insulting. :D A Duke is usually a great landholder in the realm. Depending on how big your kingdom is and how allodial holdings are distributed I'd go with something between 250k-750k. Something roughly 1/4 a year to 1/2 year's income would probably be best.

joe b.
 

jgbrowning said:
IMHO, 10k would be insulting. :D A Duke is usually a great landholder in the realm. Depending on how big your kingdom is and how allodial holdings are distributed I'd go with something between 250k-750k. Something roughly 1/4 a year to 1/2 year's income would probably be best.

joe b.
Alright - for an NPC, at 20th level, DMG suggested wealth is 220k. For a 20th level PC, suggested is 760k. So you're suggesting the PC, if he's 20th level, offer somewhere between half and the entirety of his life savings? Somehow, I expect that a Duke wouldn't be used to handling that much money, given the D&D economy.
 

Your average peasent makes a silver piece per day.
A duke in a feudalistic society proably makes 1000 times what those poor serfs do. So about 100 gold per day. 36500 GP per year he proably waste most of it on the best food paying his servants and soldiers and various other extravagant luxuries. I'm not sure how much dowry was given in Midieval europe generally. But I do know in some cases it can be pretty ridiculous. I'd expect 10k at least and up and up and up.
 

That depends on the purpose of the dowry.

Is it to insure that the bride will have an income if she becomes a widow? Or is it to set up the bride and groom so they can establish their own noble land and not have to *shudder* EARN a living?

See, presumably the Duke's daughter is desirable, so it's not a bribe to taker her off his hands. Therefore the dowry either has some practical value, or it's a way for the Duke to show off how rich he is.
 

jgbrowning said:
IMHO, 10k would be insulting. :D A Duke is usually a great landholder in the realm. Depending on how big your kingdom is and how allodial holdings are distributed I'd go with something between 250k-750k. Something roughly 1/4 a year to 1/2 year's income would probably be best.


I agree with Joe, I'd even go into the 1000k-2000k range for a powerful duke with a sizable chunk of arable land.

Of course the dowry wouldn't consist of huge sacks of coins, mostly plots of land and maybe a castle or two.
 

This dowery should be as much a responsibility as it is a gift. The Duke should grant title to the couple for a large tract of land... on the north border, which happens to be the site of a charming fortress, where the dragon legions have been raiding, but I'm sure you'll clear it out in no time, there's a good chap.

-- N
 

Couple more questions for the ENWorld crew:

First, there seems to be conflicting messages coming in. I was under the assumption that a dowry was paid _to_ the Duke for his daughter. This was due to the typical nature of daughters moving in with husbands, and then good sons taking care of elderly parents (ie- duke loses his kid so he gets gold to take care of him instead). Some of the posts seem to be implying that the Duke would be paying out cash.

Second, the kingdom is just under 10,000 square miles (we play in very small worlds) and he basically rules a single province. With a population density of 80 (average from what I've read), he is looking at having 200,000 peasants in his quarter of the kingdom. Thus 200,000 peasants at 1 sp/daily is 7,300,000 gp yearly. Taxes at 30% would rake in 2,190,000 gp.

From here I break down and get lost. I would assume that the king would tax him at least 50%, so would it be foolish to assume that his annual income would be approx 1,000,000 gp with which he maintains an army for his lord, roads, cities, guards, and supplies himself with a nice lifestyle?

I believe jgbrowning suggested somewhere between 1/2 and 1/4 years income, but I hardly think it would be possible for anyone to afford such a sum unless they were higher than a duke in station, something I wish to avoid.

I think perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 of a years profits would be more suitable. To that end the Duke would further his own coffers quite well, earning a huge 'bonus' for his future pension plan. I guess my next question would then be how to determine how much profit a duke would generate per annum.

Most wealth came in land holdings and titles, as far as I know, so I doubt much cash was kept on hand. Certainly enough to facilitate daily, albeit rich, life and the occasional mishap. Perhaps 95% of each years taxes would be used and returned in some regard? Bear in mind that this is not at the national level, so there is still the king above this duke. At 95% this would leave 50,000 gp every year to be ferreted away. This seems appropriate when one considers that the DMG listed prices for things like Castles and Huge Castles would then take 10 and 20 years, respectively, to pay off. Considering it realistically took similar amounts to build, it works.

From there one could assign a dowry from 12,500 to 25,000 and it would be extremely meaningful. Amounts in the 1-2 million range are simply too absurd at any level unless it is royal. Else entire kingdoms would have to pull together to see the princess wed.

Any problems forseen? Insights to be given? Qualms to be rendered? Thanks for the help.
 

I was under the assumption that a dowry was paid _to_ the Duke for his daughter.

I've always thought that in Europe the dowry was paid to the husband in recompense for the costs of supporting the bride.
 

AeroDm said:
Couple more questions for the ENWorld crew:

First, there seems to be conflicting messages coming in. I was under the assumption that a dowry was paid _to_ the Duke for his daughter..

Ouch.

A dowry is paid by the bride's family to the bride's new husband. This is fact.

As a guess: A price of 1/4 of the bride's family's income (not gross income, obviously), would be reasonable.
 

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