How much for the Bride in the Window?

[Agback]

First, there seems to be conflicting messages coming in. I was under the assumption that a dowry was paid _to_ the Duke for his daughter.

No, a payment by the groom to the father of the bride is a bride-price. A dowry is effectively the bride's inheritance, handed over to her husband at the time of their wedding.

A noblewoman's dowry will not be paid in cash, but in estates.

I would assume that the king would tax him at least 50%

Nope. A king is not going to be able to tax a powerful person like a duke. Nobles are generally exempt from personal taxation, though they do pay somewhat in taxes on luxury goods, and have to do military and court service and sometimes provide contingents in times of war. Commoners pay taxes, and most of the expenses of the government are met out of the incomes of the Royal Estate.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Conaill]

Note that for trhe duke to fork over such a huge dowry, he's going to need a *damn* good reason to marry off his daughter to the groom in question. True Love just doesn't cut it at these levels. In exchange for the dowry, the duke will expect some political or trade benefits and assurances. Plus any potential suitors will be very closely vetted. Candidates would be those of a similar social status as the duke himself. Age is fairly unimportant but fertility is.

 

[tarchon]

In many cases, the dowry could only be inherited by the wife's children and if she died childless it would go back to her family. I think I've even seen cases where it reverted to her family on her death unconditionally. There were usually restrictions on her husband's control over the dower, since the institution was really intended as a kind of insurance to protect the woman's financial welfare against the possibility of her husband's imprudent management.

 

[mythago]

First, there seems to be conflicting messages coming in. I was under the assumption that a dowry was paid _to_ the Duke for his daughter.

That's more like a bride-price than a dowry. Either way works, but it depends on your campaign world.

 

[Cedric]

Nobles, be they Baron's, Earls or Dukes did not usually deal in large amounts of cash. Lands and titles were the accepted form of trade and agreement among nobles.

If the Duke is going to be offering his daughter's hand to a young suitor. The suitor would have to be nobility...or the Duke have to be extremely liberal. If the suitor is nobility (much more likely), the Duke would increase his titles and holdings.

Make him a Count perhaps...and increase his lands. It was also not at ALL uncommon (in fact it was very common) for a wealthy noble to have multiple titles and only go by one of them.

The Duke ... if this was his only child...could also make his would-be stepson his adoptive son for purposes of continued lineage (this provides the Duke does not have his own sons). Then the title of the suitor would depend largely on the hierarchy of nobility in that land. He could merely be Lord so-and-so until the Duke dies, then inherit the Duchy...or the sons of some Dukes were considered Princes.

Provided he is some low ranking nobility or medium ranking nobility. The Duke can offer up some of his own lands, create a new title and the dub the young man a Baron or an Earl. Then the suitor will also inherit his families estates when they pass (or might, depending on lineage) and have multiple titles.

At any rate, I would not offer money, but rather lands and titles. Then items of importance and worth...armor, weapons, warhorse, silks, trained craftsman, skilled maids, spices, wines...etc.

Cedric

 

[Agback]

If the Duke is going to be offering his daughter's hand to a young suitor. The suitor would have to be nobility...or the Duke have to be extremely liberal. If the suitor is nobility (much more likely), the Duke would increase his titles and holdings.

Make him a Count perhaps...and increase his lands.

Arrangements of course varied. In early informal times become a barons was simple a matter of owing a suitable barony. But it was rarely in the power of a duke to ennoble people, and the making of counts or earls has always been a strictly royal prerogative.

Regards,


Agback

 

[frankthedm]

I've always thought that in Europe the dowry was paid to the husband in recompense for the costs of supporting the bride.

My oldest information on dowries was the one in the Toho japanese animated version of "Alladin and the wonderfull lamp" [the one where the lamp genie scares alladin's mom almost to death, the treasure chamber has glass peaches and there is a kagaro rat as Alladins little friend.] That one the Husband gave the dowry. I assume that was sorta why the disney'd version had Al showing his wealth off in the parade. [i need to read the original]


The dowery is best set by factoring the value the groom gets from the union, if he gets many rights, future rulership upon elima...er demise of the father, for example; then the dowery should reflect such rights.

 

[Agback]

The dowery is best set by factoring the value the groom gets from the union

The dowry is best understood by realising that it is the bride's inheritance: her share of her father's wealth, with a discount for being paid over years before his death.

Regards,


Agback