D&D 5E How much magic do you have in your game?

[DammitVictor]

Kinda rough to answer, but in my setting, cantrips and 1st level spells are not considered terribly powerful because everyone has a couple-- like Dark Sun, but with regular magic-- but spells above 3rd are comparatively less common.

On the other hand, magic items are much more common-- every child can carve a smartphone before they're allowed past the fence line-- and the world itself is just obviously running on much higher magic and more fairytale logic than most D&D worlds. Magic beans and life-giving mushrooms aren't commonplace, but they're naturally occurring. Practically all of the flora and fauna have magical abilities, and magically-useful properties. The Sun itself has emotional states that influence the weather and whether or not it straight tries to murder you.

Very, very magical world but not as much with the spells.

 

[Argyle King]

The peasants and freeman watch in terror as the small band of zombies move slowly towards their tiny village. They cheer when your PC steps forward and unleashes a massive ball of fire into the midst of the zombies! The undead burn and collapse, only a few stragglers managing to lurch forward after slowly gaining their feet. Emboldened, the villagers rush forth with pitchforks and axes, destroying the last remnants. The vile priest curses your interference and flees back into the mountains.

So, that was quick (not my greatest writing LOL) but you get the idea. How much magic do you have in your game? What level of spells marks the truly "powerful" level of magic? Is a fireball a mundane thing, something many commoners might witness at least once in their lives, or is it truly a thing to behold, something they will tell their grandchildren about years later?

I am asking because the commonplace of magic in 5E is something that removes a lot of the element of wonder from the game. Common and uncommon magic items seem like a crazy concept to me. What should ever be "common" about magic? I am sure they don't mean it the same way I am implying, but hopefully you get the idea.

Some people want magic-prevalent games, where each city has a tower of magic or ye-ol'-magic-shops. Others want it to be so rare as to make the players cheer. So, in the thoughts of focusing on SPELLS, what level of spells would be considered powerful (however you define that) to the typical person in your game world?

You can only pick one spell level, and then assume everything above it is also powerful by default. And please share your thoughts on this and thanks!

I voted "other."

I would say the game includes more magic than I would like for my ideal fantasy setting. However, I've come to accept (over the past few editions) that D&D has (I believe) evolved into its own genre, with tropes, assumptions, and setting ideas which are built-in assumptions of the experience. It still has a fantasy paint job, but the world functions much more like a modern setting -in both technology (in the form of magic) and societal assumptions of cultural mores.

In my mind, I have an idea about what is powerful. For example, I believe that being able to see in the dark is a rather significant advantage and that being able to change your face at-will would be rather powerful, but both are considered to be commonplace in D&D. So, with that in mind, I find it difficult to quantify what I see as "powerful" through the lens of the typical session of D&D. When the powerful and/or the magical becomes commonplace, it also starts to feel unspecial and mundane.

Slightly off-topic: I wish some of the ideas people have about removing ability score bonuses from races were applied to magic items. I would greatly prefer a game/world built around magic items with cool abilities (i.e. a magical bow which fires ice arrows) than +N abilities. I do believe that a +N sword should be a wondrous item and something which is powerful, but I do not like that +N items are something of a built-in assumption of the game and something against which other items are measured.

 

[tetrasodium]

I voted "other."

I would say the game includes more magic than I would like for my ideal fantasy setting. However, I've come to accept (over the past few editions) that D&D has (I believe) evolved into its own genre, with tropes, assumptions, and setting ideas which are built-in assumptions of the experience. It still has a fantasy paint job, but the world functions much more like a modern setting -in both technology (in the form of magic) and societal assumptions of cultural mores.

In my mind, I have an idea about what is powerful. For example, I believe that being able to see in the dark is a rather significant advantage and that being able to change your face at-will would be rather powerful, but both are considered to be commonplace in D&D. So, with that in mind, I find it difficult to quantify what I see as "powerful" through the lens of the typical session of D&D. When the powerful and/or the magical becomes commonplace, it also starts to feel unspecial and mundane.

Slightly off-topic: I wish some of the ideas people have about removing ability score bonuses from races were applied to magic items. I would greatly prefer a game/world built around magic items with cool abilities (i.e. a magical bow which fires ice arrows) than +N abilities. I do believe that a +N sword should be a wondrous item and something which is powerful, but I do not like that +N items are something of a built-in assumption of the game and something against which other items are measured.

I tried stuff like that ice bow thinking it would be cool when I started running 5e way back. Eventually I noticed that its actually worse than a bow that just fires piercing arrows that are magic and sometimes worse than a non magic bow because energy resistance is absurdly common but energy vulnerability is pretty unusual if you aren't fighting elementals

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I voted 5th, the upper end of Tier 2. It would be the most powerful of the common magic of the NPCs. The royal mage, the town head priest, those kinds of folks. Level 6 and up I consider high magic because of the limits to arcane recovery and font of magic, warlocks getting mystic arcanum instead of spell slots beyond that point and half-casters capping at 5th, so those who can cast those spells are above the regular folk that work with magic as a profession.

I also envision it that way because I see the NPCs more in terms of CR than level, NPCs CR 9 and up are named individuals and renowned heroes, but people below that threshold are the elites of theur respective towns (specially between CR 3 and CR 5), and up to 5th level spells things work out within that frame. A mage from the MM is just CR 6, and those pack Fireball and Cone of Cold, but are only just barely above say, a troll or a hill giant in terms of power. I don't find a problem with a couple of casters of that level in town when there is a whole family of hill giants up on the mours, the settlements in my setting need people of that level to hang on (and not just casters, strong martial also tend to cap at that point).

This a good point. If you need NPCs of a given level to explain towns surviving fairly common threats, that level cannot be super rare, unless you assume that the world doesn’t actually contain very many of those threats.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

So much magic that every time a session starts, a Lich pops out of the nearest door and yells out "Where's my witches at!?" before going back through said door and never being seen again.

To be fair, how many liches grew up on the classic phrase, “Liches get witches”?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Changed my vote to 6th.

Firstly, it’s at the level where 6th level spells come into play that enemies narratively feel totally out of the reach of a hedge witch, local militia, etc, for me. Fireball is scary, but less so than archer spread out over every rooftop in town, with cover, on roofs made of flame retardant material instead of thatch.

But 6th level spells? Nah. The town just runs away at that point.

Secondarily, it’s the spell level where spells skip a chunk of the power curve and just start jumping vertically in power at each level instead. 6th+ is clearly a different category of magic than 5th level and lower.

Lastly, I’m much less comfortable with most 6th+ level spells being in the hands of anyone who could vaguely be described as “folks”. Not even the court magician should have them, unless they’re meant to be a legendarily powerful magician.

 

[Argyle King]

I tried stuff like that ice bow thinking it would be cool when I started running 5e way back. Eventually I noticed that its actually worse than a bow that just fires piercing arrows that are magic and sometimes worse than a non magic bow because energy resistance is absurdly common but energy vulnerability is pretty unusual if you aren't fighting elementals

Good points.

I just made that up as an item which I thought would be cool.

The point I was trying to make was that I'd rather the game's magic (and related assumptions) be built around interesting effects, rather than the vertical stacking of more numbers.

Perhaps a better example (which I just made up) would be a sword which can mimic the effect of feather fall by transmuting into a mystic umbrella upon command (using either a reaction or a bonus action).

Most often, what I see happen during campaigns is that a player finds and item which they think is neat, but they end up rarely using it because it's overshadowed by items which give a flat bonus.

 

[tetrasodium]

Good points.

I just made that up as an item which I thought would be cool.

The point I was trying to make was that I'd rather the game's magic (and related assumptions) be built around interesting effects, rather than the vertical stacking of more numbers.

Perhaps a better example (which I just made up) would be a sword which can mimic the effect of feather fall by transmuting into a mystic umbrella upon command (using either a reaction or a bonus action).

Most often, what I see happen during campaigns is that a player finds and item which they think is neat, but they end up rarely using it because it's overshadowed by items which give a flat bonus.

I did it hoping to add some headroom to the near nonexistent space 5e allocates to growth of magic items. About the best I found that players might still care about was things like 3d4 instead of 1d10 and it was still messy

Edit: I also thought it would be cool and was disappointed that the system is so coded against it

 

[Minigiant]

Cantrips-2nd level: Mostly regular stuff you can buy
3rd-4th level: Mostly expensive stuff the rich or connected can buy
5th-7th level: Big unbelievable stuff
8th-9th level: Big world changing stuff

Fireball is just an explosive grenade with special rules. The magic of fireball is that the wizard isn't carring a grenade on them and the echnology of grenades is not widespread in the typical D&D world. A person with 3rd level spells is not guaranteed to have a buch of powerful and swe inspiring spells.

But if they can cst 5th level spells, crazy powerful stuff is certain.

 

[dave2008]

None, it is all science: chemistry, physics, etc. Everyone is just to ignorant and calls it magic