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WotC How new Wizards of the Coast head John Hight turned around World of Warcraft

Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
The WoW druid is all about turning into animals. Like, your specs are Feral (turn into a cat, one of the most complicated specs in the game), Guardian (turn into a bear to defend your party), Balance (Balance moonlight and sunlight, as an owlbear) and Restoration (The healing/plant magic focused one, and the only one that doesn't transform). Heck, the WoW druid is probably half of why 'turning into animals' is a druid requirement

Clerics worship gods so nature clerics worship gods. Druids worship nature itself, gods aren't necessarily involved. Also cleric magic tends to be more squeaky-clean and sanitised, compared to the raw and primal druid magic

(also like, the whole aesthetic of clerics just doesn't fit druid at all. There's a reason they were one of the first classes made)
how does the green hell of nature grant spells or are they just hippy wizards or something?
also how are shamans different from what makes them not a druid beyond mechanics or are they related like how paladins and clerics are?
 
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Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
It might be nice, but I think there's a tradeoff.

WoW is a subscription. WotC products are not. With a subscription, you benefit from experimentation, even if it's not super successful - if you get folks to check out the game, talk about the game, and see what all the hubub is about, then you get a month (or a few months) of subscription out of them. Streaming services do the same thing when they make a new season of prestige TV - they get Game of Thrones or Star Wars or Stranger Things in the zeitgeist for a few months, and that's some subscription revenue.

If WotC produced an experimental book of D&D mechanics (like a 5e version of Magic of Incarnum or something), you might get some conversation, but I don't think you'll get corresponding sales. There's a lot of people who just don't need the newest D&D supplement (which is how we keep getting core rulebook remakes - everyone wants those), and the more experimental the supplement, the fewer people are going to be interested in it. It's just not the kind of D&D they're playing.

Things might go a bit differently in the M:tG realm, I guess - the competitive nature of the game means that shakeups have more personal stakes. It's less easy to just ignore the newest expansion if you're big into the competitive scene.

Of course, if they're talking about making D&D (or M:tG) more subscription-based....that could be a wildly different kettle of fish (in a way that is unknown and not at all guaranteed to work).

You've gotta prove value with a standalone supplement in a way that you don't with a subscription model. If I needed to pay $10/month to access D&D, then whatever they make is something to chat about and play with. I'm already there, I'm playing in your playground, show me what you got. If I pay $90 for D&D once, then each thing they make needs to independently convince me that it's worth adding to my personal game. Is what you got worth another $30? Not always!
but no experimentation breeds apathy to new content as you effectively already have it thus no sales either or am I missing something?
Stryxhaven and Book of Many Things were the most experimental products made for 5e (to date). The fact that they were not successful tells you everything you need to know about WotC's wariness about experimentation.
stryxhaven was a wizard school in a game with other options thus only some will buy it also mtg settings really do not fit in dnd by design structure.

to do some bits of experimentation it would be helpful to partner them with things people already would like expanded
for a new class you would want an example setting that integrates it into the setting in a significant way whilst that setting offers things the player or DMS would like explored from adventure types to how to use a category of monster well.
you have to stack multiple reasons to care about a product on this scale as a class or subclass could sell a copy of a magazine for £50+ book you will need some more stuff to sweeten the pot.
it is multi demographic appeal
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I guess the thing is, that's grading on a curve to a degree so extreme it doesn't really feel like it's experimentation in any meaningful sense of the word.
Oh, it's definitely a pretty tentative experiment, to be sure.

But you just have to look at WotC's Facebook comments to see people howl to this day that both of those books aren't "their D&D" and how WotC has completely lost the script by not doing endless iterations of "Under Daggerford" for the rest of time.

The $1 million Kickstarter list is full of examples of people who aren't held back by their fear of such customers to actually carry the ball as far as it probably ought to. Obojima's success (commercial, at least; the book's not out yet, so who knows about artistically) suggests that stuff like Witchlight ought to be a strain of D&D that WotC should regularly be expanding upon, rather than a one and done off-shoot.

Ditto the endless dark fantasy projects that litter Kickstarter. There's a huge audience there that, even if it's not under the Ravenloft sub-brand, ought to be catered to. Strahd is one of WotC's best selling products and they've done a whole two Ravenloft projects in 10 years. (Cutting up the original book and putting it in a coffin box isn't a meaningful new product in this context.)
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
Stryxhaven and Book of Many Things were the most experimental products made for 5e (to date). The fact that they were not successful tells you everything you need to know about WotC's wariness about experimentation.
Book of Many Things came out at the end of an (effective) edition, which is a time when products historically have lower sales (the 3.5 transition killed off a ton of third party companies), plus it had a huge (unnecessary) price point and a badly bobbled launch. When the book finally made it out in proper form, people seemed to like it.

Strixhaven was really half-assed, so I'm not sure that's a judgement on the product idea so much as WotC's "eh, good enough" development process.
 
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Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
If all you want is the demand WotC is overlooking, then it's a safe bet some of those are coming, in various forms.
I don't think that's a safe bet at all.

"Hey, guys, we're going to do adventures featuring Vecna and Red Wizards" haven't seemed like a crazy idea since the early 1990s, when they were first done. The safe way to bet beyond that would be more revamps of classic dungeons, compilations of short adventures featuring settings developed 30 years ago and repackaged subclasses from the first 10 years of 5E.

The D&D development team has been very conservative in the 5E era, coming off an era when miscalculated experiments nearly sunk the whole ship.
 

But you just have to look at WotC's Facebook comments to see people howl to this day that both of those books aren't "their D&D" and how WotC has completely lost the script by not doing endless iterations of "Under Daggerford" for the rest of time.
I still don't think it really counts as experimentation. And Facebook is the most reactionary Boomer-centric place possible, so like, obviously you'll get a bunch of people who think D&D should have been frozen in amber in like 1E or 2E there, because they're like 55+, but the majority of D&D's audience is like 18-36, and of them, many aren't even on Facebook, and the ones who are, are there to stay in touch with the family (I mean, most 40-somethings I know on there only use it for that). People actually using Facebook as "social media" have got to be completely unrepresentative of D&D players as a whole.

Certainly no-one on even more "30-something" socials like /r/dndnext or Twitter on Reddit saw either of those books as remotely experimental.

The $1 million Kickstarter list is full of examples of people who aren't held back by their fear of such customers to actually carry the ball as far as it probably ought to. Obojima's success (commercial, at least; the book's not out yet, so who knows about artistically) suggests that stuff like Witchlight ought to be a strain of D&D that WotC should regularly be expanding upon, rather than a one and done off-shoot.
Absolutely.

One of 5E's core problems though is that it was an edition born out of fear and attempting to apologise for risk-taking. 4E was genuinely risky as hell in many ways, and it didn't really pan out (nor was it as big as a disaster as some suggest, we have since learned). 5E's whole "one and done" thing isn't a sensible, well-considered strategy, it's more like a lizard dropping its tail when it gets scared. By avoiding actually investing in any specific products or settings (except very mildly and cautiously in the FR), WotC can avoid getting trapped in any corners. But they also can't actually really benefit from the popularity of settings or the like, beyond one book.

So Wild isn't followed up because WotC's strategy for 5E is to not follow up things. This probably hasn't been helped by the one "double-item" release they did, the Dragonlance adventure and board game being at least 50% flop (the board game - you don't end up in Ollie's by being a success!).

WotC's leadership, including Crawford, also seem to be mortally terrified of controversy, despite being unable to keep generating it, so instead of them doing a setting that was a bit bigger, bolder or braver, we've just increasingly scared-seeming and risk-reducing takes at settings - and again, no follow-ups means none of them can be improved or expanded upon nor become more popular. Also something like Obojima might attract some mild discussion of the fact that it has anime vibes but is largely/entirely by white people, and probably this would go nowhere*, but even that kitchen is WAY too hot for Crawford/Perkins.

They've painted themselves into a corner, and until someone a bit more daring comes along, or they decide, actually it would be alright to produce more than one book relating to something that isn't the Forgotten Realms, or maybe we can stop apologising for our game than now has at least 3x more players than its previous record, D&D isn't going to do any experimenting. Maybe Hight can encourage them. I hope so. Even if he does we probably won't see the impact for 2+ years, given the way the production pipeline works.

* = Particularly because Japan itself is an imperial power, and constantly appropriates Western mythology/culture, often in quite spectacular ways, and cultural cross-pollination/cross-propriation between Japan and the West has been common for 60+ years.
 

Mecheon

Sacabambaspis
how does the green hell of nature grant spells or are they just hippy wizards or something?
also how are shamans different from what makes them not a druid beyond mechanics or are they related like how paladins and clerics are?
Okay so in Warcraft, there's six primal forces, each with an opposite. Light, Void, Order (This is wizard magic), Chaos (Demon/warlock magic), Life and Death. Druids channel life energy specifically.

Shamans on the other hand deal specifically with the elements, but also spirits. Typically speaking, most traditionally shaman groups don't have druids, and most traditionally druidic groups don't have shamans. The only one that had both at launch were tauren, who were very in tune with nature
 

Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
Okay so in Warcraft, there's six primal forces, each with an opposite. Light, Void, Order (This is wizard magic), Chaos (Demon/warlock magic), Life and Death. Druids channel life energy specifically.

Shamans on the other hand deal specifically with the elements, but also spirits. Typically speaking, most traditionally shaman groups don't have druids, and most traditionally druidic groups don't have shamans. The only one that had both at launch were tauren, who were very in tune with nature
how are spirits and elementals not part of nature?
 


Mind of tempest

(he/him)advocate for 5e psionics
Raw Nature and Organic Nature are frequently at odds.

Life vastly alters the elements, creating substances and forms that cannot exist otherwise.

Spirits are generally somewhere between Raw and Organic or Either and Divine.
ah so in much the clerics and druids already live in dnd.
these are two classes specialised in doing different parts of the job in this case being one with nature
 

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