How often do NPCs/monsters flee in your group?
- Thread starter Darklone
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Darklone
Registered User
Hmm. My PCs often try to kill off fleeing monsters/NPCs too... but usually they don't have fireballs or something similar left after the typical epic battle of the evening/gaming night.
One example included a halforc PC with single digit hitpoints who followed the barely hurt boss... who was just joined by his two snipers who hadn't been hurt at all. The other PCs tried to help but were much too slow.
That PC death made most other PCs careful.
One example included a halforc PC with single digit hitpoints who followed the barely hurt boss... who was just joined by his two snipers who hadn't been hurt at all. The other PCs tried to help but were much too slow.
That PC death made most other PCs careful.
Monsters and NPCs can flee?
...
Seriously though; we've had a few run from a fight. But over the years since 3e came out I honestly think the number of successful flee attempts have yet to reach double digits. Between ranged attackers, ranged spells and pursuit by the party it rarely works.
...
Seriously though; we've had a few run from a fight. But over the years since 3e came out I honestly think the number of successful flee attempts have yet to reach double digits. Between ranged attackers, ranged spells and pursuit by the party it rarely works.
I generaly assume the creatures in my world value their own hides (with a few exceptions). This means that they not only want to win the fight, but they want to be around to enjoy the fruits of victory. So, the next bobald in line to the big fighter isn't necessarily going to step up, even if the big bad wizard who hired him is blowing the rest of the party to bits. I don't run morale in a mechanical way, and it's quite particular. One side of a battlefield may be running while their friends on the other side of teh field may be toeing the line. Certain enemies may back away from an apparent ringer and go seek out a manageable opponent. If they are in trouble, I will often have them scatter and run. Some make it to safety and some don't.
Another thing I like to keep in mind, the usual excuse for wimps continuing to fight a suprior PC is the fear of the evil leader snd what he would do to them if they fled. I figure the axe that'll kill you in just another moment weighs a little more than the possibility of what will happen when you get home. If an evil boss wants to keep his minions that scared he has to work at it. So, for example, when I had a bunch of kobalds attack a party landing on the beach, a party that was sweeping them up like flies, there were 3 Mind Flayers standing at the exit points for the kobalds the whole time. That way the threat was real and immediate, and the kobalds kept coming. Had any of the Mind Flayers been slain, the kobalds would have immediately fled in that direction. Keeping the kobalds in play long enough to use up character resources was the plan for the Mind Flayers, but it took effort on their part. They couldn't attack us at the same time; they had to maintain their hold on the kobalds.
The players don't usually chase random encounters or small enemies, especially if they are of good alignment. But it's also more trouble than its worth to track down a bunch of fleeing enemies. BBEGs are another matter.
Another thing I like to keep in mind, the usual excuse for wimps continuing to fight a suprior PC is the fear of the evil leader snd what he would do to them if they fled. I figure the axe that'll kill you in just another moment weighs a little more than the possibility of what will happen when you get home. If an evil boss wants to keep his minions that scared he has to work at it. So, for example, when I had a bunch of kobalds attack a party landing on the beach, a party that was sweeping them up like flies, there were 3 Mind Flayers standing at the exit points for the kobalds the whole time. That way the threat was real and immediate, and the kobalds kept coming. Had any of the Mind Flayers been slain, the kobalds would have immediately fled in that direction. Keeping the kobalds in play long enough to use up character resources was the plan for the Mind Flayers, but it took effort on their part. They couldn't attack us at the same time; they had to maintain their hold on the kobalds.
The players don't usually chase random encounters or small enemies, especially if they are of good alignment. But it's also more trouble than its worth to track down a bunch of fleeing enemies. BBEGs are another matter.
iwatt
First Post
Darklone said:
That's my point exactly. I've seen players use scrolls, wands and magic items to stop a minion from running away. A minion.
It's like they feel they'er going to miss out on XP or something, even if I tell them that someone who flees in that manner is already defeated.It's actually a part of my game I put a decent amount of thought into.
If I'm using normal intelligent enemies for opposition (in other words, not brainwashed, enspelled, frenzied, etc.), they almost always try to flee if the fight turns badly against them.
If they're disciplined and loyal troops, they're more likely to stand and fight to the end, especially if well led.
If it's a fight between "civilized" enemies, and both sides have a reasonable expectation of being allowed to surrender and being tended to if badly wounded and disabled, they're also less likely to flee, and instead will put up a fight for a while even if it's hopeless to satisfy the demands of honor, and then surrender.
If they're well trained and fanatical (for example, elite troops serving some kind of evil cult) they'll not only frequently fight to the end, but will go to great lengths to avoid capture - suicide to avoid being taken prisoner while wounded, finish off wounded compatriots or drag the fight out to ensure any wounded bleed to death before killing themselves, etc.
Also, at times when I feel a morale roll of some sort would be a good idea and when the enemies are fighting at the behest of some authority figure (even if that figure is not around at the time) I'll often use the following mechanic: In order to break from the fight or disobey orders, the person fighting must make a Will Save vs. a DC equal to 10 + the Diplomacy or Intimidate modifier of the authority figure, +/- circumstance modifiers. (which depend on such things as the proximity of the authority figure, how likely they are to be able to punish the underling, their reputation for either fairness and wisdom or cruelty and capriciousness, and so on)
I'll also frequently use a similar mechanic to resist the PCs attempts at Intimidation or Diplomacy when the person they're trying to use those skills on is under contradictory orders from their leader - I usually just do it as an opposed check, though the absent leader in that case definitely gets a notable circumstance penalty.
Another thing I've had fun with a few times at the end of combat - and which always seems to throw the players for a loop - is having the badly beaten opposition (or perhaps the opposition's leader) rally for one more hard push aimed at taking down one of the PCs, and then holding his life hostage to try to either negotiate something better than a total defeat, or allow at least some people to get away freely.
If I'm using normal intelligent enemies for opposition (in other words, not brainwashed, enspelled, frenzied, etc.), they almost always try to flee if the fight turns badly against them.
If they're disciplined and loyal troops, they're more likely to stand and fight to the end, especially if well led.
If it's a fight between "civilized" enemies, and both sides have a reasonable expectation of being allowed to surrender and being tended to if badly wounded and disabled, they're also less likely to flee, and instead will put up a fight for a while even if it's hopeless to satisfy the demands of honor, and then surrender.
If they're well trained and fanatical (for example, elite troops serving some kind of evil cult) they'll not only frequently fight to the end, but will go to great lengths to avoid capture - suicide to avoid being taken prisoner while wounded, finish off wounded compatriots or drag the fight out to ensure any wounded bleed to death before killing themselves, etc.
Also, at times when I feel a morale roll of some sort would be a good idea and when the enemies are fighting at the behest of some authority figure (even if that figure is not around at the time) I'll often use the following mechanic: In order to break from the fight or disobey orders, the person fighting must make a Will Save vs. a DC equal to 10 + the Diplomacy or Intimidate modifier of the authority figure, +/- circumstance modifiers. (which depend on such things as the proximity of the authority figure, how likely they are to be able to punish the underling, their reputation for either fairness and wisdom or cruelty and capriciousness, and so on)
I'll also frequently use a similar mechanic to resist the PCs attempts at Intimidation or Diplomacy when the person they're trying to use those skills on is under contradictory orders from their leader - I usually just do it as an opposed check, though the absent leader in that case definitely gets a notable circumstance penalty.
Another thing I've had fun with a few times at the end of combat - and which always seems to throw the players for a loop - is having the badly beaten opposition (or perhaps the opposition's leader) rally for one more hard push aimed at taking down one of the PCs, and then holding his life hostage to try to either negotiate something better than a total defeat, or allow at least some people to get away freely.
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Darklone
Registered User
Hmm. I often have BBEGs "leave" a fight (with a normal number of bodyguards) before they even joined it because they see it's not running well for them. Or the fighter boss of a group that attacked the PCs smacks one PC down, is scarcely hurt... but sees that he's going to be alone in two or three rounds. So he leaves.
That's what happened to the halforc... level 6 fighter with one hit left the combat. The two archers who covered him join him behind the next street corner. Halforc follows since he's much faster and smacks the fighter for good. Fighter smacks halforc down...
Now that I think of it, that happened more than once in my groups. Right now, I remember one monk, that halforc mentioned above, one ftr/rog dwarf, one bard, one paladin... all running after a fleeing opponent boss who wasn't hurt, just was going to be outnumbered soon.
Is that too cruel on my behalf?
Edit: I use Will saves for morale checks as well. But most often villains flee earlier.
That's what happened to the halforc... level 6 fighter with one hit left the combat. The two archers who covered him join him behind the next street corner. Halforc follows since he's much faster and smacks the fighter for good. Fighter smacks halforc down...
Now that I think of it, that happened more than once in my groups. Right now, I remember one monk, that halforc mentioned above, one ftr/rog dwarf, one bard, one paladin... all running after a fleeing opponent boss who wasn't hurt, just was going to be outnumbered soon.
Is that too cruel on my behalf?
Edit: I use Will saves for morale checks as well. But most often villains flee earlier.
The Grackle
First Post
Often. If I think it makes sense for an NPC/monster to flee (or hope to flee), it does. Especially animals.
The Grackle
First Post
iwatt said:Sadly, not often enough unless I come up with an elaborate escape plans. My players are relentless in tracking down escaping monsters, using up powerful spells and class abilities to bring down escaping henchman # 3....
Wow. If your players are so predictable, you should totally use it against them. Have fleeing henchmen lead them into traps, or lead them to the REAL battle after the first/fake one.
![:]](http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/devious.png "Devious :]")
What do they do if they scatter in every direction? Each monster down a different tunnel?
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