D&D 5E How Should Dragons Be Handled In 5e

[howandwhy99]

How Should Dragons Be Handled In 7e?

Well, we will find out in 2016, won't we?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Well, we will find out in 2016, won't we?

Neutral evil, eh?

I want a balance of 3E and later. I like 3E's age categories and growth in attacks and capabilities -- Dragons should be able to be opponents at every level of play, and be a viable threat at every level of play, and still be different and unique at every level of play. They are, after all, *the* iconic monster of D&D.

No, that said, I agree with those who didn't like dragon spellcasting in 3E. I don't want my dragons to be some generic spell list (most of which they will never cast). Some dragons need some magical powers, but need to feel unique and dragonish.

And some dragons need to be massive threats because of their thick hides and big teeth and claws and fiery breath, without the addition of pixie dust.

 

[steeldragons]

How about Dragons as = the DM.

Make them look however you want. Breath weapons of whatever, however many times you like.

Magic...or spells...or magic AND spells...psionics too, don't forget the psionics.

All you're going to get out of a Monster Manual is a few notes of Dragons from stories, legends and folkloric stuff. Not a stat in sight.

Basically, they are the single most dangerous most powerful things you will ever encounter in the game...and the DM is the only one who knows how they work or what they can do...because they are, basically, the DM.

Just an idea. Thought I'd throw it out there.
--SD

 

[Croesus]

I'd encourage the "unique dragons" flavor though. Maybe make a list of "salient abilities" like in the Van Richten's guides, to help you customize a draconic foe and keep it balanced.

Yeah, I'd prefer something like this to using spellcaster levels. Much like rolling for or picking abilities in artifacts, I'd like a table of dragon abilities that could be added to a dragon for flavor and/or power.

One common theme in dragon stories is that one should never look a dragon directly in the eyes, so Domination or Charm would be an option. Another theme is that if one knows the dragon's True Name, one gains a modicum of power over the dragon. This should be another possibility.

Pull together dozens of such options and dragons can be unique, interesting challenges beyond simply frying the party with their flaming breath.

 

[Hautamaki]

How about Dragons as = the DM.

Make them look however you want. Breath weapons of whatever, however many times you like.

Magic...or spells...or magic AND spells...psionics too, don't forget the psionics.

All you're going to get out of a Monster Manual is a few notes of Dragons from stories, legends and folkloric stuff. Not a stat in sight.

Basically, they are the single most dangerous most powerful things you will ever encounter in the game...and the DM is the only one who knows how they work or what they can do...because they are, basically, the DM.

Just an idea. Thought I'd throw it out there.
--SD

Careful... with that line of thinking people might stop thinking they even need a book if they can and should come up with everything themselves.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I think PF pretty much nailed this one. They absolutely should have unique and terrifying abilities, but they should also be able to do all the things PCs can do. Dragons should not only have the best base attack/saves/hit dice or their equivalents, they should also have access to a variety of class abilities, spells being the most obvious. Dragons should be clearly the best at everything, and if you put them in a box by restricting them to only some predefined special abilities, it takes away some of the terror of not knowing what spells the DM gave them.

How about Dragons as = the DM.

Make them look however you want. Breath weapons of whatever, however many times you like.

Magic...or spells...or magic AND spells...psionics too, don't forget the psionics.

All you're going to get out of a Monster Manual is a few notes of Dragons from stories, legends and folkloric stuff. Not a stat in sight.

Basically, they are the single most dangerous most powerful things you will ever encounter in the game...and the DM is the only one who knows how they work or what they can do...because they are, basically, the DM.

Just an idea. Thought I'd throw it out there.

Not that far from how I handle them honestly. But I like to have rules in a pinch.

 

[tlantl]

Tough, aggressive, sleepy, treasure hoarders that will tear you apart with seven attacks a round, that breathe any one of half a dozen nasty compounds at you to ruin your day, and can cast a few useful and not so useful spells should they feel the need.

Players should have a healthy respect for them. Players should fear them while their characters are weak, and hold them in awe at any stage in their adventuring careers.

They really shouldn't be so big that they need whole cities to sustain them when they overcome their lethargy long enough to look for dinner, but large enough that a party of ten can surround them comfortably when they finally reach their full growth.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

All dragons should be scary multi attacking beasts with unique powers and a breath weapon (like 4e) then have a small number of spells(no sorcerer levels) and be ritual cAsters.

Imagin if you took a 15th level dragon from 4e gave him ritual caster, then gave him any 17thevel encounter power from an arcane power source, any one 10th level utility(martial or arcane) and any 1 9th level daily (martial or arcane) then cut his hp by 20%

That is a. Fun encounter waiting to happen

 

[thedungeondelver]

Dragons should be tough opponents but I don't think they should necessarily be the apex predator of the game. There's tougher fights. In AD&D a good dragon fight will be hard but not impossible and include things like trying to beguile the dragon with flattery, avoiding its spells, etc. I don't have an issue with making any given fight "fair", either: to wit, if a dragon is casting spells and the spell casting can be interrupted (in my D&D, there's a segment track for combat rounds - very handy for these instances), so be it.

With that said I think the dragon is first going to employ physical and breath weapons.

 

[Kaodi]

I am definitely in the camp where the toughest, oldest dragons should only be outclassed by nearly divine level beings and up; demon lords, arch devils, demi-gods, and their peers. The biggest, baddest dragons should be able to fight the Tarrasque to a draw at least.

In any case, I filled out a list of spells known for a Great Wyrm Red Dragon that I thought would fit more or less seamlessly, and I will include some flavour text for how I think some of the spells would look when cast by a dragon...

[sblock=Salamandrex Spell List]
9th
Meteor Swarm = Exploding Breath
Overwhelming Presence

8th
Greater Shout = Dragon's Roar
Incendiary Cloud = Spreading Breath
Mind Blank

7th
Banishment = Planar Distortion Power
Greater Arcane Sight
Greater Scrying = Even The Dragon On The DMG Can Do This

6th
Great Dispel Magic = Magical Distortion Power
Major Curse = Bad Dragon Mojo
True Seeing

5th
Break Enchantment = Magical Distortion Power
Feeblemind = Struck Dumb By Dragon Mojo
Mage's Private Sanctum = Lair Mojo
Nightmare = Bad Dragon Mojo

4th
Crushing Despair
Fire Shield = Fire Aura+
Greater False Life = Draconic Vigour
Illusory Wall = Lair Mojo

3rd
Burrow
Haste = Deadly Surprise Speed
Tongues
Water Breathing

2nd
Bear's Endurance
Detect Thoughts
Eagle's Splendour
Resist Energy
Spider Climb = Claws of Steel

1st
Ant Haul = Draconic Might
Feather Fall = Desperate Flapping
Jump
Mage Armour = Shimmering Scales
Shield = Shimmering Scales

0 Level
Arcane Mark
Daze
Detect Poison
Ghost Sound
Mending
Message
Prestidigitation
Read Magic
Resistance
[/sblock]