D&D 5E How should hit points be gained? [5E specific]

[Charlaquin]

Here’s a fun one I came up with but have yet to try:

Start at “level 0,” with features from your species, background, and starting feat only. At level 0, you have 8 + con mod HP and a 1d8 hit die. Gaining a level in a class requires training, as per the training to gain levels downtime activity in the DMG, but costs and time required are based on level in the class rather than total level (exp requirements are still based on total level).

Whenever you gain a level in a class, if your new level in that class is greater than your total number of hit dice, you gain a hit die of the class’s hit die type and increase your hit point maximum as normal. If your new level in the class is less than or equal to your total number of hit dice, you do not gain a hit die or increase your hit point maximum. You may replace one of your current hit dice with one of the class’s hit dice. If you do, roll one die of the type being replaced and one die of the class’s hit die type. You may increase your hit point maximum by an amount equal to the number rolled on the new die minus the number rolled on the die being replaced.

 

[Lanefan]

In one game I'm in, the DM switched from choice to the PHB listed amounts (max at 1st and rounded-up-average each level beyond) when they noticed that every player who opted to roll was at more than 75% possible HPs, including one player who in more two successive campaigns had more HPs then possible for their level. Came up when their rogue had more than the tank fighter really pushing their CON.

Even for players that wouldn't cheat in a session, it seems that the urge to fudge when a low HP roll comes by once a level is too much.

That's why these rolls have to be done where others can watch, i.e. at the table.

Roll it at home during the week? Too bad. Roll it again here and now, please; and this one's binding.

That one player whose character twice had more h.p. than possible for its level wouldn't be invited back for a third campaign (and likely punted out of the second one). Once could be an honest mistake, but twice is a pattern. See ya.

 

[Lanefan]

Here’s a fun one I came up with but have yet to try:

Start at “level 0,” with features from your species, background, and starting feat only. At level 0, you have 8 + con mod HP and a 1d8 hit die. Gaining a level in a class requires training, as per the training to gain levels downtime activity in the DMG, but costs and time required are based on level in the class rather than total level (exp requirements are still based on total level).

Whenever you gain a level in a class, if your new level in that class is greater than your total number of hit dice, you gain a hit die of the class’s hit die type and increase your hit point maximum as normal. If your new level in the class is less than or equal to your total number of hit dice, you do not gain a hit die or increase your hit point maximum. You may replace one of your current hit dice with one of the class’s hit dice. If you do, roll one die of the type being replaced and one die of the class’s hit die type. You may increase your hit point maximum by an amount equal to the number rolled on the new die minus the number rolled on the die being replaced.

So if you're a Fighter-3/Mage-5 and you bump, you can replace one of the Mage dice with a Fighter dice even if you're bumping on the Mage side?

I don't understand how this works. I do, however, see it would require careful tracking of what actual die was rolled at each bump; and that's where it'd run aground 'round here.

 

[CleverNickName]

I wonder how the pool would look if "average" was rounded down.

 

[Charlaquin]

So if you're a Fighter-3/Mage-5 and you bump, you can replace one of the Mage dice with a Fighter dice even if you're bumping on the Mage side?

No. If you’re a Fighter 3/Wizard 5 (remember, this thread is 5e specific, they’re called Wizards in 5e), you would have 5 hit dice, presumably 3d10s and 2 d6s. If you then gain a level in Wizard, you just gain a Wizard hit die (a d6), because at that point you have 5 total hit dice and 6 > 5. If, on the other hand, you took your new level in Fighter, you could replace one of your wizard hit dice with a fighter hit die.

You don’t actually keep track of what hit dice you gained from what class, just how many hit dice you have of what type. Your total number will always be equal to your level in your highest class. When you gain a multiclass, rather than gaining a new hit die, you have the ability to “upgrade” a die to the type the new class uses, if it’s larger. But your total number of dice won’t increase until you gain a level in your highest class, or overtake it in another class.

To demonstrate:
Level 0: Starting characters get a d8. Total hit dice: 1d8
Wizard 1: 1=1, and d6 < d8, so no change.Total hit dice: 1d8
Wizard 1/Fighter 1: 1=1, so no new hit die, but d10 > d8 > d6, so you can replace your d8 hit die with a d10. Total hit dice: 1d10
Wizard 2/Fighter 1: 2 > 1, so you gain a new hit die. Total hit dice: 1d10 and 1d6
Wizard 2/Fighter 2: 2 = 2, so no new hit die, but d10 > d6, so you can replace your d6 with a d10. Total hit dice: 2d10
Wizard 3/Fighter 2: 3 > 2, so you gain a new hit die. Total hit dice: 2d10 and 1d6
Wizard 4/Fighter 2: 4 > 3, so you gain a new hit die. Total hit dice: 2d10 and 2d6
Wizard 4/Fighter 3: 3 = 3, so no new hit die, but d10 < d6, so you can replace one of your d6 hit dice with a d10. Total hit dice: 3d10 and 1d6
Wizard 5/Fighter 3: 5 > 4, so you gain a new hit die. Total hit dice: 3d10 and 2d6
Now, imagining that you decided to suddenly take a level in Barbarian, you’d have…

Wizard 5/Fighter 3/Barbarian 1: 1 < 5, so no new hit die, but d12 > d10 > d6, so you can replace one of your hit dice. Theoretically you could replace a d10 if you wanted to for some reason, but presumably you’d rather replace one of the d6s for maximum benefit. Total hit dice: 1d12, 3d10, and 1d6.

Then, maybe you take a level in Sorcerer (you sure do like to diversify!).

Wizard 5/Fighter 3/Barbarian 1/Sorcerer 1: 1 < 5, so no new hit die, and d6 = d6 < d12 < d12, so while you technically could replace a hit die… why would you? Total hit dice: still 1d12, 3d10, and 1d6.

I don't understand how this works. I do, however, see it would require careful tracking of what actual die was rolled at each bump; and that's where it'd run aground 'round here.

You don’t actually have to keep track of how much you gained at each bump. Just when you level up and replace a hit die, roll both the old hit die and the new one. If you roll higher on the new one, gain the difference. This will mean that sometimes you gain a lot of HP on replacing a hit die, and sometimes you won’t gain any. In the long run, those instances should balance out though, and moreover, 5e uses hit dice as a healing resource, so even if you get a lucky run of high rolls on the new dice and low rolls on the old several levels in a row, you won’t easily be able to hit that max HP without magical aid.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I wonder how the pool would look if "average" was rounded down.

"Take Toughness"?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I wonder how the pool would look if "average" was rounded down.

Might be better TBH. PCs are really tough, so some nerfing of the HP might be in order.

And I obviously favour just taking the average, and in my campaign option to roll is not available. We don't roll whether characters get their other class features when they level up either, so seems really weird to do so for the HP.

 

[Jagga Spikes]

Max at 1st.
Then either: half HD per level, or reroll everything, take new or old+1, whichever is higher.

 

[Iosue]

Max at 1st level, then player’s choice of roll or average each subsequent level.

 

[TwoSix]

Here’s a fun one I came up with but have yet to try:

Start at “level 0,” with features from your species, background, and starting feat only. At level 0, you have 8 + con mod HP and a 1d8 hit die. Gaining a level in a class requires training, as per the training to gain levels downtime activity in the DMG, but costs and time required are based on level in the class rather than total level (exp requirements are still based on total level).

Whenever you gain a level in a class, if your new level in that class is greater than your total number of hit dice, you gain a hit die of the class’s hit die type and increase your hit point maximum as normal. If your new level in the class is less than or equal to your total number of hit dice, you do not gain a hit die or increase your hit point maximum. You may replace one of your current hit dice with one of the class’s hit dice. If you do, roll one die of the type being replaced and one die of the class’s hit die type. You may increase your hit point maximum by an amount equal to the number rolled on the new die minus the number rolled on the die being replaced.

I like it. It's pretty similar to my OSE house rules for multiclassing, where you can gain separate levels in multiple classes, but your true "level" and thus maximum number of Hit Dice, is determined by your single highest level in any class.

You don’t actually have to keep track of how much you gained at each bump. Just when you level up and replace a hit die, roll both the old hit die and the new one. If you roll higher on the new one, gain the difference. This will mean that sometimes you gain a lot of HP on replacing a hit die, and sometimes you won’t gain any. In the long run, those instances should balance out though, and moreover, 5e uses hit dice as a healing resource, so even if you get a lucky run of high rolls on the new dice and low rolls on the old several levels in a row, you won’t easily be able to hit that max HP without magical aid.

The main difference between my method and your proposed one is that I let people roll all their Hit Dice when they level, and they get to keep the highest X, where X is their highest single class level.

A fighter 5/magic-user 4 would roll 5d8 and 4d4 at level up (or 5d10 and 4d6 in a 5e configuration), and then keep the highest 5 dice rolled as their new HP total.