How should I respond to my DM?

[Mark CMG]

firstly to Mark CMG: I was going to be at first when we were planning, though I was already DMing 2 other campaigns and was getting a little bit tired of it, hoping to relax from it a little.

One can only do so much.

I am sorry to anyone who is replying on this thread if this seems like arguing or anything like that, it might just be me really but I keep feeling I need to clarify things..

You seem fine enough to me. It's hard to read tone on the Intrawebs but most around here try to give the benefit of the doubt.

I wish you luck but I am not sure there's any more I can suggest that you don't seem to have covered in one way or another.

 

[Naoki00_]

I agree with you. Your dm has deviated from basic idea for that game. Looks like he is trying to save the world from you and trying stop you instead of letting
it go to next phase where powers that be should finally realize how dangerous you are, and try to stop you, even if it might be too late, or if not, price
of victory would be high. I think your story was originally about rise of evil and killing some gods and forcing change in world's order or it's destruction,
revealing maybe your true nature as agents of entropy, where you then might ascend to even more primordial monsters and start devasteting other cosmosies like cold
hungry intelligent black holes. (I think I have seen stats here for something like that, lol). Or some other kinda ending.


Anyhow I think many here are making asumptions that interesting game is about challenge and those fearful of consequences of power would like to take away
your items of power and re-bind you before you even get to do away with some sorry priesthood.


I don't think your current dm is up to task. And neither are D6D rules, sure you can use them, but actually "use" them is slow and uninsparing as far as combats go.
When our games went beyond mortal D&D adventures we kept character sheets but actual combats used the idea of our abilities rather than abudance of details, and all combat
was basicly single success dice method, opposed rolls. Well, when there was actual challenge involted.


I think biggest problem with dm is, he is trying to use the rules too much, yet not able to. And he doesn't truly feel he owns the game. He doesn't feel ownership to the story.
Thus he is trying to rewrite it, yet he doesn't have actual better idea. So, he is doing passive-aggressive dm:ing "I have this secret, and that is why your powers don't work".
It does sound like an excuse, like a placeholder for some idea, that he hasn't have yet.


I can't know for sure since I don't know you but I feel like he does not like dm:ing it or if you are really lucky he is just missing point you agreed to and is trying to
change the premise. Talking with him is must anyhow.



I like reading about other people playing that kinda games. I like lowbie games too, but I'd played lot of really epic games. Power can be fun. It requires right kind of mind set from
dm and players though. I like games like that for stories. Some like to play it as D&D encounters, those play-styles don't mix well.



I think your dm might be great for other kinda games, but not for this one, Maybe his imagination works better for different stuff. More regular adventuring.
Cosmic change games might not be his cup of tea.

Or maybe it's just that you are trying to tell the story more than he is. That kinda playstyle works for some people but not for all. I personally prefer dm still be the main story teller, no
matter how wild games go.

Maybe he feels there are too many expectations regarding consequences coming from you. It's irritating if players keep correcting you about story elements. It really really is.


So talk with him. Tell what you want from game, find out if you still are wanting the same thing. And find out if he wants to quit this. And if he still seems to like idea of game offer to
dm it instead, or that another player. And if it's more about the story simplify the uber-epic rules. That games requires more wild imagination and less rules-mastery. D&D epic and divane books
were never that good. I think they were missing the point of epic. YMMV of course.

I hope you find some way to continue that game, that is fun for everyone. Talk about it and try to bring fun back. Don't complain and argue, that never changes things for better, I have many bitter

experiences about that one.


Good luck.
And please tell how it went. And if you do continue the game, I would love to hear what happens in it. That of course is up to you.

thank you so much for this, it summed up a lot of what I was trying to get across on here! I tend to be far too detail oriented in my talking (typing?) sometimes I suppose, all the while I keep leaving things out I probably shouldn't o.0... but he does feel like he's trying to make us lose on purpose, that the exact thing I was thinking about...I must be spacing lately to not sum it up like that! (too much epic thought swirling around)

 

[Zelda Themelin]

I was going to respond with a serious (hopefully helpful) post, but I can see responding in this thread is completely pointless. I'm not really sure why you need a DM to run this game. It sounds like everything (including the outcome) has been preplanned by the players and I can't see how this could be fun for any DM. But what do I know, I get bored playing video games in invincibility mode.

All I know is that if a player told me it felt like a slap in the face because I had an NPC challenge them "so early in the game", I'd laugh.

DM was one of the people planning this, so despite being dm he is still the one deviating from premise they all agreed to.

Immortality and iinvincibility are two different things. My life isn't boring because I know the ultimate outcome, I will die.

Lot of suckiness can happen to immortals there was thread about it recently.

Besides outcome wasn't preplanned only free till' phase two, and dm as changing that now.


Anyhow, I think real thing here is not about epic game that many here found unwanting. It's simply game is not the game they thought they were playing and how to tell their dm, so that he doesn't feel bad about.


But you do have point here. That might just be what dm is feeling.

 

[Elf Witch]

It seems that your game is having some issues. The best thing to do in this situation is talk to your DM.

The best way to this is to let him know you would like to talk to him don't ambush him on game day.

I always think it helps to jot down on paper what you would like to cover. Some basic talking points so that you remember what you feel is the problems. This helps avoid kitchen sinking.

The best way to talk to him is not to place blame on anyone, use I statements instead of you and I would avoid emotional statements like "it feels like a slap in the face".

Tell him your concerns and be willing to listen to his.

The important thing here is to remember this is a game and you don't really want to generate bad feelings.

Going into this you have to realize that there is a possibility that it can't be worked out to everyone's satisfaction and you may have to find another DM , adjust the campaign, or leave it all together.

One thing I try and keep in mind in these situations is that the DM is not trying to ruin your fun it usually not personal.

 

[On Puget Sound]

You say it's the DM's job to run the world while you run the PCs, but in every post you assert your right to define the world, and your outrage that there are things in it you don't understand.

It sounds like you have left nothing for the DM to do except to describe the horror and agony of your victims. It's not surprising that he's pushing back against that.

If I were GMing this, the first thing I would do is look for reasons things might not go exactly the way you plan. That's what makes it a game rather than a novel. For instance...

The negative plane is in your body... so it's gone missing? How does Orcus feel about that? Where are all the souls of the dead going now? Have they stopped dying?

You said the DM would not allow you to take control of all undead in existence, as if by denying you he was cheating. I can't find any rule that says "whoever controls the negative plane automatically controls all undead." Your character may have assumed that would happen when she set out to gain that power.... now she finds that it has not worked as intended, and she needs to figure out why. WOW, plot, challenge, storyline. You should be rejoicing, not complaining.

(Personally, I would let you take control of any given undead at any time by focusing your attention on it, but since all undead everywhere draw energy from the negative plane, they are now drawing it from YOU. Several good story options here. Maybe unintelligent undead everywhere simply stop, or go berserk, or explode into nasty necrotic sinkholes, because you haven't learned to modulate that power yet. Maybe their responses are just a little off, causing necromancers across the universe to wonder what is wrong... maybe it will be the bad guys, not the good guys, who first discover you exist. Or maybe now that the negative plane is sentient, you must personally direct all the undead all the time, distracting you or forcing you to bring in minions to do the job, minions who can be used or corrupted by your enemies. Maybe the power drain is small and manageable for now, but it weakens you just a bit.... and your eventual enemies will learn of it and exploit it by animating billions of corpses somewhere, overtaxing your reserves at a crucial moment.)

Two things to consider:
1. Superboy needed kryptonite to be interesting, even in his earliest Smallville days. What is your kryptonite now? Not later when you're fighting gods, now.

2. Mary Sue - Television Tropes & Idioms

 

[Naoki00_]

You say it's the DM's job to run the world while you run the PCs, but in every post you assert your right to define the world, and your outrage that there are things in it you don't understand.

It sounds like you have left nothing for the DM to do except to describe the horror and agony of your victims. It's not surprising that he's pushing back against that.

If I were GMing this, the first thing I would do is look for reasons things might not go exactly the way you plan. That's what makes it a game rather than a novel. For instance...

The negative plane is in your body... so it's gone missing? How does Orcus feel about that? Where are all the souls of the dead going now? Have they stopped dying?

You said the DM would not allow you to take control of all undead in existence, as if by denying you he was cheating. I can't find any rule that says "whoever controls the negative plane automatically controls all undead." Your character may have assumed that would happen when she set out to gain that power.... now she finds that it has not worked as intended, and she needs to figure out why. WOW, plot, challenge, storyline. You should be rejoicing, not complaining.

(Personally, I would let you take control of any given undead at any time by focusing your attention on it, but since all undead everywhere draw energy from the negative plane, they are now drawing it from YOU. Several good story options here. Maybe unintelligent undead everywhere simply stop, or go berserk, or explode into nasty necrotic sinkholes, because you haven't learned to modulate that power yet. Maybe their responses are just a little off, causing necromancers across the universe to wonder what is wrong... maybe it will be the bad guys, not the good guys, who first discover you exist. Or maybe now that the negative plane is sentient, you must personally direct all the undead all the time, distracting you or forcing you to bring in minions to do the job, minions who can be used or corrupted by your enemies. Maybe the power drain is small and manageable for now, but it weakens you just a bit.... and your eventual enemies will learn of it and exploit it by animating billions of corpses somewhere, overtaxing your reserves at a crucial moment.)

Two things to consider:
1. Superboy needed kryptonite to be interesting, even in his earliest Smallville days. What is your kryptonite now? Not later when you're fighting gods, now.

2. Mary Sue - Television Tropes & Idioms

well off I am to clarify things again lol. the plane isn't missing, it's in the same space of existence that it was...but she IS it, and it IS her, if you draw power from it, she gets a subconscious message about it, and can say whether or not you get it, just like a god to a cleric. Undead use the plane as a life force, she can control them through that, not only that but she doesn't need to focus on it because her consciousness now has the scope of a whole plane...also this might be this world or just our groups understanding of the DnD planes- the negative energy plane is not the underworld/abyss/9 hells..it's basically nothing but pure energy.

we're complaining because all of us (DM included) operate on this idea, and even if she couldn't control them all, she could simply say "do my will, or I take all my power back"..not only that but seeing as the character was born and has been around for millions of years (before the time of troubles, before most of the gods were even around) she has a better knowledge of the planes and powers then some gods do (she'd pretty much be able to confirm our thoughts in game with just a 15-20 Knowledge planes) as for the kryptonite bit well...mortal terms, she has none. we're not talking superman, we're talking cosmic entity, (she's basically evil jesus) think more like galactus...he's been beat before, but it's not gonna happen with just any random hero that could appear before anyone knows about him. the challenge in this campaign is all mental in the beginning, NOT physical, and it's being made into that when in canon, it shouldn't.


also, thanks to Elf and zelda for your insight, we'll be talking with him in the end most likely

 

[Moleculo]

I kind of feel bad for the DM. You described him as by the book, and then he gets stuck running one of the least by-the-book campaigns I've ever heard of. I'd be hard pressed to find the rules about containing entire planes within your corporeal body.

Have you considered changing systems to something better suited to your play style? I think you could get much better mileage out of something like the Storyteller system, where--at least my perception of it--is that the game is about constructing a shared story-space rather than resolving encounters.

 

[Oryan77]

yes I'll admit most of the plan is pretty much established, we know what we want, and what to do to get it. . . . .when you've all know a story so well that it's near concrete, and then someone makes a fanfic and nerfs the main character so what they want to happen can happen even though it would never happen based on the established canon....what I'm trying to ask is that if my DM decides to do something like that, when it goes against everything we've all known about the world we're in, how do you react to it?....

Didn't you state up front in one of your first posts that this was supposed to be a sandbox game? There is nothing sandbox about this. In fact, it is kind of funny because it sounds like a reverse railroad. Rather than the DM railroading the players into following a strict path, the players are railroading the DM to follow an "established plan". There's nothing wrong with that if that is how the group wants to play, but the DM doesn't seem to understand that.

I am sorry to anyone who is replying on this thread if this seems like arguing or anything like that, it might just be me really but I keep feeling I need to clarify things..

Naw, I think we all understand. I'm just confused because it seems like you say that you want one thing, and then follow it up by saying you don't want that. So yer getting frustrated with your DM when you guys don't even really know what you want from the DM.

It seems like everyone needs to sit down, write out this script on paper, give everyone a copy of the script just like you would do on a movie set, and during the game everyone should read off the script as if you are all actors in a play. Cause that's all yer doing and yer getting mad when the DM is deviating from that script.

You say it's the DM's job to run the world while you run the PCs, but in every post you assert your right to define the world, and your outrage that there are things in it you don't understand.

Yes, this is the same impression that I get from the group. You can't claim to want a DM to run a world, and then get upset when he's not running it according to your expectations of what should happen. Otherwise, like I keep saying, you don't need a DM. He is serving no purpose at all.

 

[3catcircus]

You say it's the DM's job to run the world while you run the PCs, but in every post you assert your right to define the world, and your outrage that there are things in it you don't understand.

It sounds like you have left nothing for the DM to do except to describe the horror and agony of your victims. It's not surprising that he's pushing back against that.

If I were GMing this, the first thing I would do is look for reasons things might not go exactly the way you plan. That's what makes it a game rather than a novel. For instance...

The negative plane is in your body... so it's gone missing? How does Orcus feel about that? Where are all the souls of the dead going now? Have they stopped dying?

You said the DM would not allow you to take control of all undead in existence, as if by denying you he was cheating. I can't find any rule that says "whoever controls the negative plane automatically controls all undead." Your character may have assumed that would happen when she set out to gain that power.... now she finds that it has not worked as intended, and she needs to figure out why. WOW, plot, challenge, storyline. You should be rejoicing, not complaining.

(Personally, I would let you take control of any given undead at any time by focusing your attention on it, but since all undead everywhere draw energy from the negative plane, they are now drawing it from YOU. Several good story options here. Maybe unintelligent undead everywhere simply stop, or go berserk, or explode into nasty necrotic sinkholes, because you haven't learned to modulate that power yet. Maybe their responses are just a little off, causing necromancers across the universe to wonder what is wrong... maybe it will be the bad guys, not the good guys, who first discover you exist. Or maybe now that the negative plane is sentient, you must personally direct all the undead all the time, distracting you or forcing you to bring in minions to do the job, minions who can be used or corrupted by your enemies. Maybe the power drain is small and manageable for now, but it weakens you just a bit.... and your eventual enemies will learn of it and exploit it by animating billions of corpses somewhere, overtaxing your reserves at a crucial moment.)

Two things to consider:
1. Superboy needed kryptonite to be interesting, even in his earliest Smallville days. What is your kryptonite now? Not later when you're fighting gods, now.

2. Mary Sue - Television Tropes & Idioms

Frankly, the very first post had me going, "Ohhh.... Okaayyy..." So, the PCs just happen to start out with all these templates and levels applied rather than having to have earned them through playing the game?!?!?

As a DM, my first response to even the concept of such a campaign would've been a big 'ole "NO - go play Exalted instead if you want that kind of game. Otherwise, you are starting at 0-level. Roll 3d6, in order."

 

[Wicht]

In what way is this campaign supposed to be fun? Where is the challenge supposed to come from?