How the heck did medieval war work? And other rambling questions.

[Bumbles]

Does anybody have any historical examples of a city or fortress that was encapsulated by enemy walls/battlements during a siege?

Masada might be an example of it.

Bit more at this article.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Throw out any assumptions if dealing with any levels of magic.

In some Forgotten Realms settings, there are countries with...

1. Dragon Riders.

2. Griffin Riders.

3. Golems

4. Undead Armies

5. War Wizards

6. XXX and YYY

Unless you're doing a historical simulation of medieval times using the D&D rules, which is probably going to work heavily against the grain (what rituals are there? What do Arcane/Divine/Primal characters do), it's best to embrace the feel of what you want as opposed to the how of what you want.

Red Hand of Doom

Heroes of Battle

Good gaming references for somethings that may be useful in a D&D style campaign.

Black Company: Good ideas for what happens when high powered mages come into conflict with one another and even stranger monsters.

While I've never read Harry Turtledove's series, World At War, the whole premesis of it is that it's what happens when a fantasy world is at war.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Into-Darkness-World-War-Book/dp/0812574729/ref=sr_1_35?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245286093&sr=8-35]Amazon.com: Into the Darkness (World at War, Book 1): Harry Turtledove: Books[/ame]

 

[rgard]

Does anybody have any historical examples of a city or fortress that was encapsulated by enemy walls/battlements during a siege?

I have a city in my campaign that during a siege, magically they slowly built out walls around it and then built the walls inward. The war ended with the enemy army showing up and a massive battle was the outer-ring battled both invaders coming from the outside and the sieged city from the inside coming out...

I understand there's a bit magical (reminds me of an RTS tactic!) but was curious if anything like this happened in real life so I could look at some ideas about when/how it happened to make the story more believeable and any maps too.

If your question was on a Roman history exam, the correct answer would be Julius Caesar's siege of Alesia.

Here is the wikipedia site for it:

Battle of Alesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The authors sum up the battle well, but I really, truly recommend you read

Caesar's Commentaries: On The Gallic War and On The Civil War

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Caesars-Commentaries-Gallic-War-Civil/dp/0976072610/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245287165&sr=8-7]Amazon.com: Caesar's Commentaries: On The Gallic War and On The Civil War: Julius Caesar, James H. Ford, W. A. MacDevitt: Books[/ame]

It's a genuinely good book, imho, but I did major in history.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Hawke]

Thanks for the replies... hopefully the OP is inspired by some examples of neat combat...

 

[FriarRosing]

Thanks everyone for the responses and information. The siege idea is excellent, and I hadn't considered it at all. Also, all of the suggested reading material is great, and I'll have to check it out. The idea for front line ghouls was especially cool, and would probably fit well with a lot of my ideas.

While pondering my options today, I realized that I might not have been thinking fantastic enough. I wanted a dark, filthy war and it hit me that a dungeon may be the perfect place to set some of the battles. Maybe not a true dungeon, but probably some sort of sprawling cave complex. My idea was to have at least one of the boundaries between the warring kingdoms have a great, nigh impassible mountain range, which for the most part can only be traversed by passing through the caverns beneath it. The main battles along that front would be in the cavernous reaches of this mountain, limiting tactics and logistics, and (to my mind) keeping things more in line with a slightly more modern war than an ancient one. Devastation could be easy, with the troops and warriors all cooked up in relatively small spaces, easily killed off in mass. Defending armies could fortify in various positions, or even cut off passages, leaving their opponents with no place to go. Digging tunnels would be an important part of battle plans and strategy. I don't know how good of an idea this is, and the whole thing may be absolutely ludicrous, but it's something I'm going to consider.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Galloglaich,
wow, it's hard ot imagine anyone building a castle without a well or massive cistern!!!
boy that was silly, as that should be one of the firs things built.

Sieges/castles in Scotland Northern England were often won by sneakiness, like entering through the privvies, yuck!
Edward the First refused to let Stirling Castle surrender until he'd tried out his infamous trebuchet on it, eek!

In his Garret P.I. series I like how Glen Cook describes the war that caused so much bother as a dirty sort of Vietnam-type afair, with the two sides using proxies, mercenaries and conscripts in a deadly jungle.

Undead (ghouls and stronger anyway) would prove too great a risk in many cases for a sane warlord, as they'd destory everything, so you'd have a Phyrric victory at best?

 

[Bumbles]

I don't know how good of an idea this is, and the whole thing may be absolutely ludicrous, but it's something I'm going to consider.

Sounds workable...and to a certain extent, this sort of thing has been done already. There are plenty of underground sites in the world, many quite ancient.

Things to remember:

Water in caves is both good and bad. good because everybody needs to drink. Bad because too much water causes drowning and other problems.

Here's the Wikipedia page for underground cities, a few of the older ones are mentioned

You could try an interesting feature or two, like a hidden city in the mountains that connects to the tunnel system...or does it?

 

[Galloglaich]

If your question was on a Roman history exam, the correct answer would be Julius Caesar's siege of Alesia.

Here is the wikipedia site for it:

Battle of Alesia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The authors sum up the battle well, but I really, truly recommend you read

Caesar's Commentaries: On The Gallic War and On The Civil War

Amazon.com: Caesar's Commentaries: On The Gallic War and On The Civil War: Julius Caesar, James H. Ford, W. A. MacDevitt: Books

It's a genuinely good book, imho, but I did major in history.

Thanks,
Rich

I second that, Gallic wars is a very good read, even quite funny (in a black humor kind of way) particularly in reading the dialogue in the letters exchanged between Caesar and the various German and Belgian tribes. It's an easy and engaging read, and it's primary source history, you can't beat it.

G.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

While pondering my options today, I realized that I might not have been thinking fantastic enough. I wanted a dark, filthy war and it hit me that a dungeon may be the perfect place to set some of the battles. Maybe not a true dungeon, but probably some sort of sprawling cave complex. My idea was to have at least one of the boundaries between the warring kingdoms have a great, nigh impassible mountain range, which for the most part can only be traversed by passing through the caverns beneath it. The main battles along that front would be in the cavernous reaches of this mountain, limiting tactics and logistics, and (to my mind) keeping things more in line with a slightly more modern war than an ancient one. Devastation could be easy, with the troops and warriors all cooked up in relatively small spaces, easily killed off in mass. Defending armies could fortify in various positions, or even cut off passages, leaving their opponents with no place to go. Digging tunnels would be an important part of battle plans and strategy. I don't know how good of an idea this is, and the whole thing may be absolutely ludicrous, but it's something I'm going to consider.

Don't forget to check out:

1) accounts of the Tunnel Rats of Vietnam.
Tunnel rat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Viet Cong tunnel systems
military videos - TUNNEL RATS VIETNAM WAR

2) accounts of Tucker's Kobolds
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/89222-tuckers-kobolds.html

3) how Ant and Termite mounds are built. Pay close attention to African Termite mounds, since they are actually climate controlled, and some have their own water resevoirs.

4) articles about spelunking. There have been some nice one in Smithsonian and Nat'l Geographic magazines (and on their cable channels). I'm not a claustrophobic person by any stretch of the imagination, but watching spelunkers go into unexplored caves filled with water that had some tight- even submerged- squeezes gave me the shivers.

5) horror movies set in caves- The Descent and others spring to mind.

 

[Korgoth]

Also, watch "Braveheart" and "Excalibur" for the feel of melee fighting and "King Arthur" for that 'small group of heros in the midst of a big battle' feel, especially in the climactic end battle. "Kingdom of Heaven" also gives you a bit of the siege feel. These are resources you may already have and can be done at the times where you want more of a passive gain and can be watched going to bed or whenever.

Wow. I don't mean to step on Herschel's helpfulness, but I un-recommend all those movies in the strongest possible terms. You'll know vastly less about history after you're done watching them.