How to break old school Monty Haul players?

[dream spawn]

You could give him all of the items he wants, but then make him the target of thieves and rogues far above his level, but equal with the level of his items. I think that having the items and losing them would be worse than never getting them. So close to greatness.

 

[Tewligan]

He's 29 years old and he plays like that?! Good gravy, I'd expect better behavior than that from someone half his age. Hmm - actually I take that back. I used to play Warhammer 40K with a guy who was a horrible gotta-win crybaby, and he was also about that age. Based on that experience, I can tell you that making a baby face at your brother and saying "Waaaaah" repeatedly in a high-pitched baby voice when he complains will not make him see the warm light of reason. It is, however, entertaining for all involved (well, all but one.) Hope this helps!

 

[Kobold Curry Chef]

I see...he's your brother, and he's always antagonizing you? I don't think that's ever happened before.

Seriously, this does not sound like an RPG problem. It sounds more like a sibling rivalry sort of thing. Either that, or he's been reading a lot of Knights of the Dinner Table. In any case, sounds like he's really into the game, even if it's not for the reason you would prefer. It could be worse. He could just sit there, never saying anything, always looking bored, and not caring if his character lived or died.

 

[BlackMoria]

Hoist him with his own petard

I have first hand experience with the Monty Hall types.

For the most part, they are unrepentant and will not change. They view the game as a competition that must be won by them.

Here is a few things that I have used to good effect.

The Eternal Champion - got one real rabid Monty Hauler real good with this. Basically, he found out about the ultimate arms and armor in my campaign. Real kick ass stuff. Man, he was virtually slobbering all over himself.

I used this a carrot for quite a while and then allowed him to acquire the artifacts. When he donned the stuff, he found out that he was the new scion of ultimate law - The Champion Eternal (with due thanks to Moorcock for the idea ). He got to keep his character but was forced by the artifacts to go after endless quest after endless quest.

Everytime he complained (which was constantly), I would remind him that his efforts to be the biggest and baddest ass in the campaign world was grooming him for the ultimate role in that campaign world - to him that much is given, much is expected and now he had a destiny....

Totally torqued this guy off - he was the ultimate mortal but had virtually no say over his destiny. The only way I would allow him off the hook was for him to forswear his destiny in the largest temple of ultimate law - which he did. Gone were the artifacts, plus a number of his other magic items, plus some levels......and an alignment change to chaos.

He finally got the point and was much better in the next campaign.

My other method was a NPC I simply called Mongo. Mongo was whatever I wanted him to be. Mongo was a legend. Everyone heard of Mongo's exploits.

I would pull Mongo out whenever someone let the power and items go totally to their head. When they started their chest beating 'look how bad ass' display, they would be told that 'Mongo was better', 'Mongo can take you with one hand behind his back', and other such inflammatory statements.

Eventually, the character in question would feel that the world is not big enough for Mongo and themself. 'There can only be One' as one munchkin would tell the other players. They would try to find Mongo. They would publicly defame Mongo. Other NPCs would advise them that only idiots with a death wish willingly sought out Mongo or would diss him.

After letting this go on for some time, they would finally get to meet Mongo. Mongo was essentially the same as the character except he had alot more levels, attribute points, and magic items. Mongo had blown of so many wishes on this and that , that he was virtually invincible.

Then Mongo would hand the character's ass back to him on a platter. When the player whined about the demise of his character, I would simply remind him that he was the one who travelled the country with a huge chip on this shoulder, looking for Mongo (and calling Mongo out) just so that he could try to be the ultimate character in the campaign. 'What are you complaining about - you called out the best of the best and you didn't measure up....' I would tell the whiner.

After Mongo made an appearance or two in several campaigns, the munchkin players would learn to be humble..... particularly if they found out that their insistent bragging was heard by some guy called Mongo ......who was looking for them...... and he didn't look happy.

I have not had to use Mongo in a great many years, but my real long time players still remember him with 'almost' fondness

 

[Vaxalon]

Another way to handle it is to go the complete other direction. Warning, though, you'll probably want to do this in one-on-one, because the other players won't like it. Personally, I probably wouldn't bother, because I don't have THAT much trouble finding players.

Have him go on a little quest. At the bottom of a small dungeon, is a room with a bunch of red buttons. Above each is the name of a race of monsters that exists in your game. When he approaches, a voice says, "Are you ready to hold the fate of entire races in your hand?" Whenever he pushes a button, he kills every one of that kind of monster in the world... and gets one hundred thousand experience points. He'll probably push them all. Tell him he can calculate his new character based on the new experience... and he can get all the levels, not just one at a time.

Once he's done that, tell him, "Congratulations. You've won. All of the monsters are dead, and your character is the most powerful character in the whole universe." From then on, there are NO challenges. Everyone he meets, gives him whatever he wants, does whatever he says. His character BECOMES "Mongo" for this world. Wait for him to get bored. It might take a little while, so you have to lay it on thick. Whe he demands anything, respond with as short a sentence as you can. "You get it." "He does what you say." "She does." "Yes. What now?"

 

[Zenon]

Heh, I use to have this same problem running Champions. My players would want to design 300 point characters and then run around stopping normal bank robberies! (which is kind of like swatting flies with a nuke). They would also whine about plots I presented. "Why do we always have to save the world?" they would ask.

Fianlly, I gave in. I gave them bank robberies by normals to stop. However, I wouldn't even let them roll a die (because there was no point to it. The outcome was going to go in their favor, no contest). The best was the first one of these I did:

DM: "You get a call to your Super HQ about a bank robbery."
Munchkin: "Oh Boy! I fly right over there at the speed of sound"
DM: "You get there. Inside the bank you see a man with a gun."
Munchkin (salivating and picking up dice): "I..."
DM: (holding up hand to pause the player) "With your super strength/speed/powers, you easily capture the robber, turn him over to the police and head back to your HQ."
Munchkin (sputtering): "What? But..I didn't get to roll any..."
DM (folding his hands and looking at they player): "I could tell how the outcome was going to go without needing to waste 2 hours rolling combat. What are you doing back at HQ?"
Munchkin: (blink...blink...blink)

Lather, rinse, repeat as neccessary.

It was priceless.

In other words, give him what he wants. Make him the uber-king, whatever. Give him whatever items he wants. Just never, ever let him roll for anything again. Make everything go his way, always, with no rolls or checks needed from the player.

The power of the munchkin comes from showing off what his character can do, but you (as the DM) can take that away from him by just describing how actions go. Trust me, he'll get bored really quick....

Sorry to hear you having such trouble, good luck!

 

[njorgard]

Think about this...

You know...if I were you I'd get malciously creative on his a$$ and have fun with the whole thing while at the same time making him look like a fool in front of the other players (which begs the question - how do other players feel about him?). Try making his character bump into NPC types who are just as bad or worse than he is and mimic his real-life behaviour, curse him with greedy hirelings, and -the icing on the cake- dump him head first into a pit full of rust monsters and disenchanters. Just a thought...

 

[Rashak Mani]

Nobody mentioned one of the primary reasons for Monty Hauls and Munchkins...

As a players the one of the worst things that can happen is making a roleplaying character in a combat oriented campaign. You feel out of place. Or everybody powers up and you dont.

For example you make a good fighter but not munchkin. Then the group's Cleric and Bard do some min/max and power up and fight better than you do and have spells too ! How do you as a player feel with your puny fighter ? Of course you can have fun ... its not impossible. Yet the fact that your fighter is now a second rate fighter can be very bad for your fun factor.

Competition among players can be the reason for the Monty Haul tendencies... if as a DM you make sure everyone is more balanced or that its not so important to have X damage per round. Conversation would be the primary means to stop this arms/power race.

 

[spinjammer]

What I don't understand about those breed of players is their
willingness to compete against the DM. 10 Years ago, I had similiar problems with a group, they were sort of playing against me. I didn't get the point. Fighting against the DM? Hello? If he wants you to lose, you lose. No competition here. "Your boys are going down!" Zip - they rise again, roll up new characters.

I had one memorable player. We played AD&D 1st and he desperately wanted to have psionic powers. After a while I gave in and he rolled on the psi table. After a few rolls (ah, I was just warming up with the other rolls.), he finally got psionic powers.
He was happy for a few seconds, then he saw me roll too. After inquiring why I was rolling, I said that the other players might have psi as well. Anyway one of the other players had a lucky roll, and we had two psi users. He didn't like that at all. He wanted to be the only one with powers of the mind (he, he).
During the campaign, he devised a lot of plans to try and strip the other player of his powers, but he never followed through with it.

In another campaign, this same player wanted to be a level 20 Wizard (2nd ed.). He did some nice things. He found out about a disguised devil posing as a rich merchant in a town and let his herald (yes he had one) announce it on the market. He couldn't understand that the townspeople didn't believe him. After all, he spent almost an entire day in this town. The townspeople told him he's crazy and when his herald was reduced to a heap of ash, he went nuts. At night, he summoned demons (he was chaotic good) and attacked the town. I gave him a lot of detail: "Your fireball just hit a large old house - kids come out crying!". Well, there goes another fireball. After he was satisfied with the destruction, he left. The town then called out for heros and a party of level 9 to 10 adventurers set out against the evil wizard.
The party went looking for him and he got really paranoid.
Sitting in an inn, he overheard someone asking for a man fitting his description. He stood up, went outside and fireballed everyone inside. Women, kids, man, it made no difference.
Eventually the party caught up with him. He then learned that having a level 20 wizard and having earned a level 20 wizard are two different things. He just stood about 50 yards away from the party, facing them. After casting two spells, the hastened fighters reached him and hacked him to pieces. He took down one party member, but was quite shocked why he fell so easily. No preperation or anything of the kind. That was the end of his level 20 trip. I teased him a little more. Your wizard has been turned into a lich by an evil undead cult. He jumped at the idea, but when I told him it was just a joke, he was rather pissed off. Since then, we have never played again.

Spinjammer

 

[Rashak Mani]

Yep the olde against the DM syndrome... quite silly to kill off people like that for no reason. Thats why once in a while its good to have those campaigns where surviving is triumph... where players are always closer to being naked and dead than full of magic items.