How to deal with a "true roleplayer".

[TaranTheWanderer]

At a certain point, you should be asking the party "Why the heck are you still bothering with this guy?" But the probable answer, no matter what they come up with, is PC Glow, and I can't help but believe that most people who play the "its what my character would do" card count on that.

He was a friend. In the end, his character lost so many levels that he couldn't keep up with what we were doing so he stopped playing his character and his character wandered off with a party of NPCs we'd befriended. We gave them all our second hand magic loot and sent them to do the quests we were too busy to finish. (Which is why I don't have to suspend disbelief when high level NPCs ask low level PC groups to do quests.)

 

[James Gasik]

I didn't mean to start an edition war here, lol. Each version of D&D has it's selling points, and as I get older, I adopt new editions more slowly; I was instantly on board with 2e and 3e because, why not?

But I was slow to accept 4e (even though I eventually grew to love it) and I'm still kind of "it's ok, I guess" when it comes to 5e. But ultimately, you have to go where the game is.

I can choose not to play 5e, and then I would have less opportunities to game in my area; the only other option is Pathfinder 2, and while it's probably ok, some of the things I've heard about it make me dubious (everybody gets 3 actions, spellcasters have to burn all 3 to get maximum use out of spells, which still use spell slots, shields have to be lowered to attack, then raised afterwards*).

My point has been, if you decide to jump off the ride at any point, that's a choice you have to live with. You can't then shout at clouds because other people didn't jump off with you and expect results. Even 5e can be daunting to a beginner, and once you've learned it, being told "now, learn an entirely new way of doing things" is equally daunting. You need to know the juice is worth the squeeze.

Neither I nor my friend could "sell" 2e effectively to a group of gamers who are invested in 5e, owning multiple game books and currently having fun. It's unfortunate (even with all it's crufty old rules, I think there's merit to the experience of 2e, and there are good things about it, if you're willing to explore), but that's just how it is.

We have to adapt or risk being left behind.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

the only other option is Pathfinder 2, and while it's probably ok, some of the things I've heard about it make me dubious (everybody gets 3 actions, spellcasters have to burn all 3 to get maximum use out of spells, which still use spell slots, shields have to be lowered to attack, then raised afterwards*).

these aren't quite right - yeah you get 3 actions, but movement is an action and attacks gain a cumulative penalty so spamming them is a bad idea. there are some spells you can get more use out of by burning all your actions (heal is a notable example), but most spells are just 2 actions (sometimes 1) to throw them out. you don't have to lower your shield to attack, it's just that raising a shield (and thus benefitting from it) only lasts until the start of your next turn (wherein you can raise the shield again).

 

[James Gasik]

these aren't quite right - yeah you get 3 actions, but movement is an action and attacks gain a cumulative penalty so spamming them is a bad idea. there are some spells you can get more use out of by burning all your actions (heal is a notable example), but most spells are just 2 actions (sometimes 1) to throw them out. you don't have to lower your shield to attack, it's just that raising a shield (and thus benefitting from it) only lasts until the start of your next turn (wherein you can raise the shield again).

Oh thanks for the clarifications, I forgot that I was going to follow up that asterisk with "I don't actually know if this is how it works". It wasn't my intention to spread misinformation or anything!

That shield raising thing still sounds weird though.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

That shield raising thing still sounds weird though.

it is a little weird, i won't lie. i think it's mostly a balancing measure.

 

[MNblockhead]

At a certain point, you should be asking the party "Why the heck are you still bothering with this guy?" But the probable answer, no matter what they come up with, is PC Glow, and I can't help but believe that most people who play the "its what my character would do" card count on that.

What is "PC Glow"?

 

[Lanefan]

At a certain point, you should be asking the party "Why the heck are you still bothering with this guy?" But the probable answer, no matter what they come up with, is PC Glow, and I can't help but believe that most people who play the "its what my character would do" card count on that.

I'm all about playing to what the character would do but at the same time am not a real fan of PC Glow; so I might be an exception to your theory here.

 

[Lanefan]

But I was slow to accept 4e (even though I eventually grew to love it) and I'm still kind of "it's ok, I guess" when it comes to 5e. But ultimately, you have to go where the game is.

I disagree. Just because the game's publisher declares "that's where the game is now" doesn't force or compel me or anyone else to follow it; and I\m often baffled at how so many people who purport to really like the game the way it is at time X still insist on abandoning it for something that may or may not be as good just because that's what the publisher wants them to do.

If you're playing a version of the game that suits you and works for you, be it 0e or 1e or 3e or 4e or whatever, it's both easier and cheaper to just stay with it forever.

Neither I nor my friend could "sell" 2e effectively to a group of gamers who are invested in 5e, owning multiple game books and currently having fun. It's unfortunate (even with all it's crufty old rules, I think there's merit to the experience of 2e, and there are good things about it, if you're willing to explore), but that's just how it is.

We have to adapt or risk being left behind.

OK, so what will these same people do when 6e drops? Will they decide to abandon their collective investment in 5e for that, even though they wouldn't for 2e? If no, and they stick with 5e, I can respect that. But if yes...well... <holding tongue> ...

 

[Lanefan]

What is "PC Glow"?

The concept that PCs are treated differently, mostly in the metagame but sometimes in the setting as well, simply and only because they have the little "PC" sticker on their foreheads.

Any time you see or hear "It's Jim's character, we can't just toss him out of the party" even though were that character an NPC it'd be tossed in a heartbeat, that's PC Glow. Anytime someone argues that PCs don't have to be representative of their species and-or use the same mechanics as NPCs, that's PC Glow in a different form. And so forth.

 

[Thomas Shey]

What is "PC Glow"?

PC Glow is the particular "glow" a fellow PC has that allows a player group to take a new character on-board even though they may look very dubious and often aren't what they're necessarily looking for in a new teammate. But because its the other players character, well, he's okay they guess.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm all about playing to what the character would do but at the same time am not a real fan of PC Glow; so I might be an exception to your theory here.

Yeah, but you're also used to a much more fluid PC group than is at all typical and has been for a long time.

 

[James Gasik]

I disagree. Just because the game's publisher declares "that's where the game is now" doesn't force or compel me or anyone else to follow it; and I\m often baffled at how so many people who purport to really like the game the way it is at time X still insist on abandoning it for something that may or may not be as good just because that's what the publisher wants them to do.

If you're playing a version of the game that suits you and works for you, be it 0e or 1e or 3e or 4e or whatever, it's both easier and cheaper to just stay with it forever.

OK, so what will these same people do when 6e drops? Will they decide to abandon their collective investment in 5e for that, even though they wouldn't for 2e? If no, and they stick with 5e, I can respect that. But if yes...well... <holding tongue> ...

It's not because of the game's publisher that I can't find people willing to play AD&D, Earthdawn, Old WoD, 3e, 4e, Fantasy Age, or any of the other games I'd rather be playing than 5e. Heck, even my Pathfinder 1e group has dissolved. It's because the majority of the available player base has chosen the current "cool, shiny thing" as their game of choice. So I could spend my time reminiscing about the "good old days" or...I could play 5e.