How to deal with a "true roleplayer".


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Voadam

Legend
Eh? AD&D Monks had the following Thief abilities: Open Locks, Find/Remove Traps, Move Silently, Hide in Shadows, Hear Noise, and Climb Walls, all as a Thief of their Monk level.
Looking it up in the 1e PH and 1e OA, you are correct! My memory did not include that at all.

2e fighting monks from the Complete Priest and Monks from the 2e FR books do not get such thief abilities though.
 
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James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Looking it up in the 1e PH and 1e OA, you are correct! My memory did not include that at all.

2e fighting monks from the Complete Priest and Monks from the 2e FR books do not get such thief abilities though.
Oh yeah, because the 2e Monk was a Priest kit (and a terrible one), as I recall.
 

Voadam

Legend
Oh yeah, because the 2e Monk was a Priest kit (and a terrible one), as I recall.
The 2e Fighting-Monk was a Priest kit from Complete Priest's Handbook which was basically a base priest (cleric, druid, specialty priest) with martial arts/wrestling/punching fighter specialization but no armor and fewer spheres to pick spells from.

The 2e Monk was a full on priest base class in supplements like Faiths & Avatars.

The 2e ninja class was a full on rogue base class from Complete Ninja's Handbook.
 

ThorinTeague

Creative/Father/Professor
Well, I'm having a devil of a time finding which Dragon it was in, but I definitely recall (for whatever that's worth) Gygax saying that not letting elves and orcs get raised was at least in part to offset their other powers, because if they could be raised then why would anyone play a human?

I could, of course, be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure I'm not here. And hey, maybe Gygax ran meatgrinder games where raise dead was common.
There were a bunch of BS limitations put on nonhumans because GG couldn't fathom anyone might have other reasons than game mechanics for game and character choices. Which I'm sure probably came from his generation of [war]gamers and the specific circle he rolled with. (Communities were not so globally connected back then.)
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
There were a bunch of BS limitations put on nonhumans because GG couldn't fathom anyone might have other reasons than game mechanics for game and character choices. Which I'm sure probably came from his generation of [war]gamers and the specific circle he rolled with. (Communities were not so globally connected back then.)
Which is really odd that he never thought to give Humans advantages on par with the so-called "Demihumans". I don't really count unlimited level advancement, since so few characters ever reached such lofty heights of power.
 

ThorinTeague

Creative/Father/Professor
Which is really odd that he never thought to give Humans advantages on par with the so-called "Demihumans". I don't really count unlimited level advancement, since so few characters ever reached such lofty heights of power.
Beats me. The +1 to each stat works pretty well, although it may have imbalanced 1e. (Which some would say wasn’t balanced to begin with.)
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Beats me. The +1 to each stat works pretty well, although it may have imbalanced 1e. (Which some would say wasn’t balanced to begin with.)
Well, our ancestors were persistence predators, so even if most humans today are cream puffs, we still have the potential for better stamina than a large chunk of the animal kingdom. And according to scientists, the reason we succeeded over our closest relatives was due to our superior ability to communicate and coordinate with one another.

So a bonus to Constitution or Charisma isn't wildly unbelievable.
 

S'mon

Legend
Well, our ancestors were persistence predators, so even if most humans today are cream puffs, we still have the potential for better stamina than a large chunk of the animal kingdom. And according to scientists, the reason we succeeded over our closest relatives was due to our superior ability to communicate and coordinate with one another.

So a bonus to Constitution or Charisma isn't wildly unbelievable.

Running 1e I give only humans the Mature Adult age bonuses of +1 STR +1 CON. Humans are bigger than the demi-humans, making them relatively strong and tough.
 


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