Pathfinder 1E How to deal with high AC PCs

N'raac

First Post
the Rogue (who also shines in investigation and social encounters) can perform and even outperform him as long as he gets his flanking.

I ran a fighter some time back whose main purpose in life was to let the rogue flank. A 50' movement rate would sure help (this guy had Combat Expertise, Mobility and Spring Attack, and if he took an AoO hit or two to let the Rogue add 4d6 to her damage - well worth it! But then, our group always noted that the Rogue didn't do all that damage alone. He had team backup.

Group dynamic makes a lot of difference. My group has never focused on "that PC is overpowered", but on "how do we synergise our abilities to make the party more effective as a whole".
 

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I ran a fighter some time back whose main purpose in life was to let the rogue flank. A 50' movement rate would sure help (this guy had Combat Expertise, Mobility and Spring Attack, and if he took an AoO hit or two to let the Rogue add 4d6 to her damage - well worth it! But then, our group always noted that the Rogue didn't do all that damage alone. He had team backup.

Group dynamic makes a lot of difference. My group has never focused on "that PC is overpowered", but on "how do we synergise our abilities to make the party more effective as a whole".

The party is pretty good at what you describe. A Rogue is unfurtunately not a Striker - usually he does pretty much what the Fighter manages with a normal sneak attack. Only when the enemy is also flat-footed does the Rogue outdamage him. And this is a fighter who is far from optimized on damage. Sneak attack alone is nice, but not great. However the fighter benefits from flanking anyway.

It's the Magus that does the most damage atm, using decent magic weapon (improved by magus ability) and Shocking grasp with 15-20 crit range, and every time he crits he gets the spell back!

Don't worry I don't think it's broken, even with average damage around 30.
 

MerricB

Eternal Optimist
Supporter
The party is pretty good at what you describe. A Rogue is unfurtunately not a Striker - usually he does pretty much what the Fighter manages with a normal sneak attack. Only when the enemy is also flat-footed does the Rogue outdamage him.

Erm... are you getting a rule wrong?

A flanking rogue will get sneak attack damage with every strike. An 8th-level rogue should be putting out about 5d6 damage plus bonuses every strike; with two strikes per turn (or three if the wizard casts haste), that adds up very quickly.

Sneak attack applies to both opponents denied their Dex bonus and opponents that are flanked.

Cheers!
 

Erm... are you getting a rule wrong?

A flanking rogue will get sneak attack damage with every strike. An 8th-level rogue should be putting out about 5d6 damage plus bonuses every strike; with two strikes per turn (or three if the wizard casts haste), that adds up very quickly.

Sneak attack applies to both opponents denied their Dex bonus and opponents that are flanked.

Cheers!

Noticed when i said normal sneak attack? And then specifed he doees MORE damage when the enemy is flat-footed? Well that's a feat.
5d6 average = about 17 damage, which any decent fighter can do at that level anyway, even this AC-focused one manages to meet that out.

I even gave the rogue an Agile shortsword, which helps up the damage somewhat.
 

Magesmiley

Explorer
Well, I'm not a regular PF player, but have played 3.5 with high AC characters (both as player and DM) a number of times. A few things come to mind with making the mooks more effective:

1. Aid Another. Use it.
2. If they need a 20 to hit, go for broke. Power Attack. Rapid Shot. Who cares how big the penalties to hit are if you need a 20 anyways. Do things to throw more attack rolls or increase the damage that the few attacks that do hit do deal.
3. Friendly spellcasters. Something often overlooked is how much a fairly low-level spellcaster can buff low-level mooks, if given an opportunity. Look for spells that affect multiple friendlies. Magic weapon on a bucket of arrows that each mook takes a couple of?
4. One-shot magic items. Similar to the spellcasters, a few one-shot magic items (potions, scrolls, etc.) can make your mooks more effective.
5. Alchemical items. There are lots of things you can do here. They're fairly low-cost, and if you've got a mob of mooks, you can spare a few actions to do some different things.
6. Mobility. Use a big area and make sure that the mooks have room to maneuver, staying just outside of his melee range. They can also utilize superior movement to just go around the high-AC target and go for easier ones (I don't imagine the wizard is going to like being the only target the 10 archers can hit). Similarly, hitting the high-AC character with stuff that limits his ability to move around works too.
7. Take advantage of the difference in the number of actions you have access to with mooks. Keep some ready actions to deal with the pesky actions that the figher (or his spellcaster allies!) may try to use to wipe out a group of mooks.
8. Traps. Especially a water-filled pit. Very deadly. Let the mooks do something obnoxious like bull-rush. There's lots of material here.
 


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