D&D 5E How to deal with player death?

[Just Tom]

Maybe that part is just in the Balor's write-up, then. Why would they bother wasting space on describing the effects of magic items used against the PCs, when monsters use their own rules that completely ignore the existence of magic items? It's far easier to simply say that a Marilith's sword attacks count as magical, than to say that she wields magical swords, after all.

It's worth noting, the actual underlying rules are fairly consistent. It's just the presentation of the rules, as though PCs were somehow inherently different from NPCs, that is absolutely atrocious. Suggesting that the world actually works differently for PCs and NPCs, as the books appear to do, is highly misleading.

I am fairly new to the 5th edition, I am back to RPGs after a 15 year hiatus, and I might be ignorant of what you are talking about. But I have not seen gross inconsistencies in how the rules are presented to indicate there is a difference in how the world works for PCs and NPCs. A human fighter with a vorpal blade chops your head off with a critical hit whether he is a NPC or PC. A Balor does triple damage on a critical hit, whether the target is a PC or NPC.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I am fairly new to the 5th edition, I am back to RPGs after a 15 year hiatus, and I might be ignorant of what you are talking about. But I have not seen gross inconsistencies in how the rules are presented to indicate there is a difference in how the world works for PCs and NPCs. A human fighter with a vorpal blade chops your head off with a critical hit whether he is a NPC or PC. A Balor does triple damage on a critical hit, whether the target is a PC or NPC.

A Balor wields a vorpal longsword, which they don't bother to spell out for anyone because it might be confusing. The way a vorpal sword works in the DMG is that it just decapitates someone on a critical hit, unless they're too cool for that (i.e. they have legendary actions); if they're too cool, and just decapitating them instantly would be lame, then it does a bunch of extra damage instead.

The way the balor's sword works in the MM is that it just does a bunch of extra damage on a critical hit; the designers automatically assume that it's going to be fighting PCs, and decapitating them instantly would be lame, so they cut to the chase and go straight to the extra damage step. You can see how they designed it, and that it basically gets you to the same place, but they've tried to hide the underlying logic by simplifying the game mechanics so players don't have to think about it. Except for those players who are veterans of certain previous editions, who expect the game mechanics to stay intact through the whole process, and are left questioning why they would bother using two different mechanical subsystems to represent the same in-game reality.

A better example of the same principle can be found in the NPC listings in the back of the MM. I forget which NPC best demonstrates it - it was either like a bandit leader, or a gladiator or something - but you can clearly see that it's intended to dual-wield and has extra attacks. Instead of just using the normal dual-wielding rules from the PHB, and having the Extra Attack feature, it has the Multiattack action that you see in monsters: it can make two attacks with its main-hand weapon, and one attack with its off-hand weapon, as an action. It doesn't require a bonus action to make the off-hand attack (not that it has any other options for what to do with a bonus action), and it adds its full stat modifier to the damage roll. It's basically a high-level fighter-type, but they present it using monster rules, which means it doesn't quite line up exactly. But it mostly works in practice, if you don't think about it too much.

 

[Just Tom]

A Balor wields a vorpal longsword, which they don't bother to spell out for anyone because it might be confusing. The way a vorpal sword works in the DMG is that it just decapitates someone on a critical hit, unless they're too cool for that (i.e. they have legendary actions); if they're too cool, and just decapitating them instantly would be lame, then it does a bunch of extra damage instead.

The way the balor's sword works in the MM is that it just does a bunch of extra damage on a critical hit; the designers automatically assume that it's going to be fighting PCs, and decapitating them instantly would be lame, so they cut to the chase and go straight to the extra damage step. You can see how they designed it, and that it basically gets you to the same place, but they've tried to hide the underlying logic by simplifying the game mechanics so players don't have to think about it. Except for those players who are veterans of certain previous editions, who expect the game mechanics to stay intact through the whole process, and are left questioning why they would bother using two different mechanical subsystems to represent the same in-game reality.

A better example of the same principle can be found in the NPC listings in the back of the MM. I forget which NPC best demonstrates it - it was either like a bandit leader, or a gladiator or something - but you can clearly see that it's intended to dual-wield and has extra attacks. Instead of just using the normal dual-wielding rules from the PHB, and having the Extra Attack feature, it has the Multiattack action that you see in monsters: it can make two attacks with its main-hand weapon, and one attack with its off-hand weapon, as an action. It doesn't require a bonus action to make the off-hand attack (not that it has any other options for what to do with a bonus action), and it adds its full stat modifier to the damage roll. It's basically a high-level fighter-type, but they present it using monster rules, which means it doesn't quite line up exactly. But it mostly works in practice, if you don't think about it too much.

Nowhere does the MM specify that Balors wield vorpal swords. The longsword wielded by a Balor does 3D8 slashing + 3D8 electrical damage, and 3x damage on a critical hit. That is in no way a vorpal sword. Repeating that Balors in 5E carry vorpal swords doesn't make it so. In AD&D Balors carried +1 swords not vorpal swords, so switching the weapon is not unprecedented.

I think you are on more solid ground with your points on NPCs. However, a vorpal blade in a gladiator's hands will still chop a PCs head off.

 

[pukunui]

A Balor wields a vorpal longsword

According to the entry on page 53 of the 5e MM, a balor wields "a longsword that channels the power of the storm". Nothing about it being a vorpal blade.

Except for those players who are veterans of certain previous editions, who expect the game mechanics to stay intact through the whole process, and are left questioning why they would bother using two different mechanical subsystems to represent the same in-game reality.

This seems more like a problem with the player in question than with the system. I would consider myself a veteran of certain previous editions, yet I have had no trouble adapting to 5e and prefer it to all previous editions of the game.

In fact, the shortcuts given to monsters and NPCs is one of the few things I liked about the most recent previous edition. I was not a fan of the edition before that's slavish adherence to crossing every t and dotting every i.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Nowhere does the MM specify that Balors wield vorpal swords. The longsword wielded by a Balor does 3D8 slashing + 3D8 electrical damage, and 3x damage on a critical hit. That is in no way a vorpal sword. Repeating that Balors in 5E carry vorpal swords doesn't make it so. In AD&D Balors carried +1 swords not vorpal swords, so switching the weapon is not unprecedented.

Balors attack with their great fists for 2-12 points of damage. Anyone struck by a balor's fists must roll a saving throw vs. spells with a -6 penalty or flee in terror for 1-6 turns.
Balors much prefer weapons to fists in combat. Each carries a great sword that looks like a bolt of lightning. In the hands of a balor, these swords are vorpal and can detect evil/good in a 30 foot radius. Any creature that picks up a balor's sword, regardless of whether its skin actually touches it, immediately suffers 10-60 points of damage and must roll a saving throw vs. spells, or die immediately.

Vorpal Sword (Su): Every balor carries a +1 vorpal longsword that looks like a flame or a bolt of lightning.

I can't find a stat block for the Balor in 4E, but I'd be surprised if they changed it. They've never been big on removing their iconic flavor, once it's in place.

I did find the stat block for the Vorpal Sword in 5E, though, and apparently the amount of extra damage which it deals to an un-decapitate-able target is exactly 6d8, which is the same amount of extra damage a Balor does by rolling damage three times instead of twice on a critical hit. Whether a Balor crits a PC with its fancy sword, or a PC crits a legendary creature with a vorpal sword, it's +6d8 damage either way.

 

[pukunui]

I can't find a stat block for the Balor in 4E, but I'd be surprised if they changed it. They've never been big on removing their iconic flavor, once it's in place.

Well, in this case, they have. Not only does the 5e balor wield a lightning sword instead of a vorpal sword, so does the 4e balor (just went and checked my 4e MM).

 

[Just Tom]

I can't find a stat block for the Balor in 4E, but I'd be surprised if they changed it. They've never been big on removing their iconic flavor, once it's in place.

I did find the stat block for the Vorpal Sword in 5E, though, and apparently the amount of extra damage which it deals to an un-decapitate-able target is exactly 6d8, which is the same amount of extra damage a Balor does by rolling damage three times instead of twice on a critical hit. Whether a Balor crits a PC with its fancy sword, or a PC crits a legendary creature with a vorpal sword, it's +6d8 damage either way.

A Balor's sword does 6D8 as normal damage, not as a critical hit. Below is the text from the MM. So a Balor on a non-critical hit does as much damage as a vorpal blade critical hit on a monster that cannot be decapitated. A Balor with a critical hit with its sword would do 18D8 damage. Whatever Balors carried in previous editions they don't carry vorpal swords in 5E.

Longsword. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit:21 (3d8 + 8) slashing damage plus l3 (3d8) lightning damage. lf the balor scores a critical hit, it rolls damage dice three times, instead of twice.

 

[pukunui]

Longsword. Melee Weapon Attack: +14 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit:21 (3d8 + 8) slashing damage plus l3 (3d8) lightning damage. lf the balor scores a critical hit, it rolls damage dice three times, instead of twice.

Mmm. And 4e's version reads thusly:

Lightning Sword (standard; at-will) * Lightning, Weapon
Reach 3; +32 vs AC; 2d10 + 10 lightning damage, or 3d10 + 30 lightning damage on a critical hit.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Well, in this case, they have. Not only does the 5e balor wield a lightning sword instead of a vorpal sword, so does the 4e balor (just went and checked my 4e MM).

Even in AD&D, as I quoted, their sword was described as lightning. It was just a lightning-shaped sword that acted vorpal. In 3.5, their vorpal sword looked like lightning (or flame).

What did a Vorpal Sword do in 4E? I'd be surprised if it was anything like decapitation, since that seems like it goes against the basic design of 4E. Was it even in the PHB?

 

[pukunui]

Even in AD&D, as I quoted, their sword was described as lightning. It was just a lightning-shaped sword that acted vorpal. In 3.5, their vorpal sword looked like lightning (or flame).

OK, well, in 5e it's just a "longsword that channels the power of the storm".

What did a Vorpal Sword do in 4E? I'd be surprised if it was anything like decapitation, since that seems like it goes against the basic design of 4E. Was it even in the PHB?

Yes, there is a vorpal weapon in the 4e PHB. It just does lots of extra damage in various different ways:

It's limited to level 30 +6 axes and heavy blades.
Critical: +6d12 damage
Property: Whenever you roll the maximum result on any damage die for this weapon, roll that die again and add the additional result to the damage total. If a reroll results in another maximum damage result, roll it again and keep adding.
Power (Daily): Free Action. Use this power when you hit with the weapon. Deal an extra 3d12 damage with the attack.

By comparison, the 4e balor's lightning sword attack just does an extra 1d10 + 20 damage on a critical hit.