How to describe Strider's combat on Weathertop

[ColonelHardisson]

Consider the daughter and granddaughter (Arwen) of Galadriel. There is nothing to indicate they shared their mother's strength or powers. They had never seen the blessed realm nor beheld the face of Elbereth. They were no more powerful than Legolas though they shared a more noble lineage.

This, as I indicated above, is open to a lot of interpretation. We really know nothing about Celebrian. We do know something about Arwen. She seems to have been a throwback to an earlier time. Tolkien evokes Luthien in describing her. While he put his female characters on pedestals, I think he still meant to convey she had inherited some part of her grandmother's power.

I still think Noldor could pass on their attributes and power to their offspring. It gradually diminished the farther away from its source it got, but it was still passed down. The light of the trees was still a powerful thing, even passed down through various forms - including the in the phial Galadriel gave to Frodo.

 

[ReignofGeekaos]

Rumour of the Earth.

Mind if I switch topic's a little?

Now then I was recently reading the Two Towers, and noticed two things one was that whenever Anduril fell a bright flame appeared to crash down on the Orc's and the other was when Aragorn used something called the Rumour of the earth, now I'm wondering something, would middle-earth Rangers be able to use spells, and if so, what kind would they be, I'm not sure if this is a spell like ability that he just happens to have, and if so how would you treat it in a game, I'm actually tempted to redo the class, and rework certian things into it, but what exactly I'm not sure, but was hoping if you had noticed similar Special-ish abilities that he exhibited.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

I do not ever remember putting a wink symbol on one of my posts, but will do so this time.

This thread is new and unusual, concerning the film version of a Knife in the Dark, from FOTR.

Think about what a literal translation of that battle would have been like in 2nd edition Dungeon and Dragons terms (I have no choice but to use 2nd edition since 3rd edition continues to throw me, folks.)

If you go by the 2nd edition D&D game, using the film version of the event, we have four 0 level characters and one high level character, all with normal weapons and one with a torch as well, confronting five spectres armed with swords (the leader with a magical short sword as well.)
In the 2nd edition game, spectres drained 2 life levels per hit, and were immune to normal weapons. Fire would damage them, but we are talking one torch to the five of them.
I think that, in the Dungeons and Dragons game at least, the outcome is a foregone ccnclusion.

If you go by the BOOK, using 2nd edition D&D rules, the situation for Frodo and Company is worse by far.
The hobbits had magical blades, and these blades were particularly potent against the Lord of the Ringwraiths, yes.
However, striking a Ringwraith had this tendency to kill you, via the Black Breath (as Merry and Eowyn almost discovered in ROTK.)
Methinks all the hobbits might have ended their days such, assuming the Ringwraiths did not simply hack them down where they stood, being the better at swordplay.
As for Aragorn, I would not lay odds on one man with torches against five armed wraiths. Aragorn is a very fine combatant, yes, but I still think it lousy odds.
After all, if striking a Ringwraith did bad things to you, I'm willing to be being touched by them also did bad things to you (being hacked down by their blades, obviously, doesn't contribute to your health either.)

The name of Elbereth ... was ... deadly to the Lord of the Ringwraiths, and certainly the shouting of that name may have aided in saving Frodo's life.

However, I believe that the reason Frodo was not killed, along with all the rest of the company including Aragorn, is quite simple:

The Lord of the Ringwraiths saw he had wounded Frodo, and had every right to expect that wound to quickly overcome Frodo ... in other words, Frodo would come to him, as a wraith himself, and the Ring would be yielded up then.
Already wounded by the name of Elbereth, the Lord of the Ringwraiths did not care to be set aflame by the brand wielding maniac leaping at him, and preferred to let the Morgul Knife do it's work.
And why not?

Returning to the film ...

I see a case of Sam deciding to be heroic, and attacking the Ringwraiths.
Nice, but as Aragorn said at Bree: your courage will not save you.
The Ringwraith gave Sam a good knock to the head and sent him flying. Sam can count himself lucky a sore head is all he got from that - in the book, he might have died from the Black Breath.

The Ringwraiths obviously perceived the Ring.
They did not bother with Merry or Pippin, and simply grabbed them and pushed them aside.
Again, Pippin and Merry can count themselves lucky - in the book, such a touch from the Nazgul might have killed them pretty quick.
In any event, I see that Merry and Pippin (wisely) decided not to give any further battle to these monsters ... I'm even sure Frodo would have approved of their inaction, nevermind what befell him.

As for Aragorn versus the ringwraiths, it was different here in this film.
This was not D&D nor was this the book.
Aragorn was a champion swordsman, and he fought as one - he was clearly more than a match for the wraiths in that respect.

The Ringwraiths, in the film, made the small mistake of wearing those heavy black cloaks, which had this tendency to burn - and fire DID hurt the ringwraiths ... it must have hurt like crazy, being burned alive (or unalive?) in those cloaks they had used to give shape to their nothingness.
I doubt the one Ringwraith appreciated having the torch thrown in his face, either (the torch stuck, too ... now THAT must have been seriously painful!)

I notice that in the film the Ringwraiths do not draw off and give the Morgul Wound time to work it's magic - they pursue the Company closely (or, at least, it's implied they pursue the Company closely.)
... I ... would have pursued them, if I had been set on fire by this louse of a Man and had been burned alive!
I would have caught up with them, and taken them all alive ... and started cutting off fingers and toes, one by one, with my Morgul longsword ... or perhaps tested the sharpness of my blade by skinning said human mongrel alive.

No swift and kindly death, for these Rebels against Sauron the Great, who put fire to my lovely flesh!

As for the She-Elf daughter of that criminal, Elrond the Half-Wit ... I would have shot her down as she tried to play horsewoman and run from me.
Then I would have tested that renown Quendi endurance of hers, by gouging out bits of her body with my claws, piece by piece.

What lesser fate should be handed out to these criminal, deluded, and hurtful Rebels who presumed to believe that they were exempt from the rulership of Sauron the Great, Lord of the Earth?
What lesser, kinder fate would be just for such rats?

 

[sword-dancer]

Re: Rumour of the Earth.

Mind if I switch topic's a little?

Now then I was recently reading the Two Towers, and noticed two things one was that whenever Anduril fell a bright flame appeared to crash down on the Orc's and the other was when Aragorn used something called the Rumour of the earth, now I'm wondering something, would middle-earth Rangers be able to use spells, and if so, what kind would they be, I'm not sure if this is a spell like ability that he just happens to have, and if so how would you treat it in a game, I'm actually tempted to redo the class, and rework certian things into it, but what exactly I'm not sure, but was hoping if you had noticed similar Special-ish abilities that he exhibited.

Anduril was forged by Telchrist(IIRC a tre Noldor of old), the same who forged the knife with which Beren cut a Silmaril from Melkors Crown.
The flame of the West it was called.
I think it had his inforged powers/gifts only in the hands of a rightful bearer, descendand of Luthiens/Berens line and the rightful heir, but i wouldn`t mind if in dire need another descend would use it.
Rumour of Earth
You speak from the meeting of the three companions with Eomer and his Eothred(?), i got the impression it was more a point of Aragorns wisdom, lore and understanding.
The Rangers of the North were Dunendain descendants of Numenore who were being faithful to Valar and Elves.
Aragorn had divine Ancestorshio, the Maiar Melian.
So he wa´s gifted with the abilitie to heal
"Hands of the King are the hands of a healer, and so the true king could ever acknowledged."
But Elrohir and Ellerdan were also gifted with this.
And Elrond had the greates gift and lore as a healer.

If you go by the 2nd edition D&D game, using the film version of the event, we have four 0 level characters and one high level character, all with normal weapons and one with a torch as well, confronting five spectres armed with swords (the leader with a magical short sword as well.)

I doubt that Frodo was in IIed a 0lev char.
More a 1-3 lev thief, Sam a fighter or Ranger, Merry /Pippin Rangers/Fighters.

one high level character, all with normal weapons and one with a torch as well, confronting five spectres armed with swords (the leader with a magical short sword as well.)

We had one 20lev+ Ranger with the abilities of a chosen or proxie added(Aragorns divine/Maiar Blood), who is armed with the shards of Narsil, an true lesser/medium artifact.
Ask yourself what would happened with a spectre who was hit with excalibur(Not that joke from the legends & lore ), holding in his hands fire what they feared.
So they need every round a save with neg modifiers.
Add to that, Gandalf had fought with a few Nazgul a few days before, could you call them weakened?
Lords of the Noldor searched the Land for the Companions, the possibility of Glorfindel or Co. charging in with light in eyes and heart, wielding weapons of true Noldor craftmanship...

would have shot her down as she tried to play horsewoman and run from me.

Since the Nazgul are blind in sunlight, and Asfaloth as a true Elf-Horse, descendant from the father of Horses, wouldn`t allow himself to fail his rider, the possibilitie to fall from him is slim

 

[ReignofGeekaos]

No this is a while before he meets Eomer

"Where sight fails the earth may bring us rumour, said Aragorn. "The land must groan under their hated feet." He stretched himself upon the ground with his ear pressed against the terf. He lay there motionless, for so long a time that Gimli wondered if he had swooned, or fallen asleep again. Dawn came glimmering, and slowly a grey light grew about them. At last he rose, and his look was troubled. "The rumour of the earth is dim, and confused." He said. "Nothing walks upon it for many miles about us. Faint and Far are the feet of our enemies. But loud are the hoofs of horses. It comes to my mind that I heard them, even as I lay on the ground in sleep, and they troubled my dreams."

Anyway that's what I'm talking about. And I'm trying to decide if it's a spell or a cool Ranger trick.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

It sounds more like a use of the Track feat with a high Wilderness Lore score, with a synergy bonus for Listen.

 

[Irda Ranger]

It sounds more like a use of the Track feat with a high Wilderness Lore score, with a synergy bonus for Listen.

No way. I only have seen the movie, and am reading book one now, but from the quote given, that was not a Skill. That was clearly what the Player's Handbook would call a Supernatural ability, Spell like ability, or spell. i.e., magic was involved. Skills, no matter how many ranks you have, are never magical.

As for it being a Ranger ability, spell, or whatever, you could go anyway you wanted, and I think it would work fine. Seems to have a long casting time for a spell, and the "somatic" component would be lying down and taking a nap. I guess you would wake up fatigued if in heavy armor

Now, I like Rangers (as anyone who can add 2+2 together should realize) and I think that cool abilities like this "Rumour of the Land" is exactly what they need to "fix" them. Not that I in any way want to turn this into an Alt.Ranger thread by any means. If this is a spell, it should go on the Druid spell list too.

Back on topic however, I am going to go with the "mission accomplished, lets go wait for him to die" consensus that suggests the Ringwraiths left mainly because it was too much effort to stay for no good reason.

I still like the idea I piped in with a while ago though about combining Great Cleave and Bull Rush: Just keep Bull-rushing until someone stops you.

Irda Ranger

 

[ReignofGeekaos]

But how to adept it is now the question.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

No way. I only have seen the movie, and am reading book one now, but from the quote given, that was not a Skill. That was clearly what the Player's Handbook would call a Supernatural ability, Spell like ability, or spell. i.e., magic was involved. Skills, no matter how many ranks you have, are never magical.

I don't see that that's necessarily so. Aragorn was the wisest and hardiest man of his day, the greatest Ranger, and could well have had epic-level skills. What about the passage quoted seems so magical? He laid down and carefully felt and listened to the earth. It seems more Zen-like than mgical. Check out the epic level book - let's see; the Balance skill has a DC for balancing on a cloud; Climb has a DC for climbing across a ceiling - both are skills, neither are magical, in the D&D sense.

 

[ReignofGeekaos]

Except...

I was hoping it could be more then just a Listen check, The Ranger as it is needs something to beef it up a little, hell if you wanted you could call it Epic track, and make it a Feat, but I want it to be something more then that possiably a special ability that a Ranger could have availible, if you really wanted to get into it, it's Track with a nice bonus from Listen, and Wilderness Lore. I'd rather it be something else.