How to describe Strider's combat on Weathertop

[Uller]

In the appendices, the Witch-king is really scary, while in
FotR, he's merely spooky.

Right. And thinking way way back to the first time I read the books (22 years ago!!!!) and my first impressions of the Weathertop scene, he was just some wraith wearing a crown...obviously a leader and probably very tough. I think the point of the scene (beyond driving the plot with Frodo's near death) was to establish two facts: The Ring Wraiths, while tough, are not unbeatable or are in little mood for a straight up fight if it can be avoided and "Strider" is far more than he seems.

It is hard to put myself back in that mindset where Strider is some mysterious woodsman and the wraiths are mostly shadows that like to pick on the little guy...

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Uller also brings up another good point. The Witch-King is almost certainly a Black Numenorean, age-old foes of Aragorn's line, the Faithful Dunedain. He may have hesitated when he saw Aragorn, knowing him for what he was; as leader, the other Nazgul would also have hesitated when they saw him pause. We see Aragorn's affect on another Black Numenorean, the Mouth of Sauron, much later in the books - he flinched away just from Aragorn's gaze. Even Sauron was fearful when Aragorn revealed his existence in the palantir.

 

[JerryLove]

The problem is of course that reality != movies != DnD. That said.

Aragorn is standing in an open space, primarily between a foe, and people he's guarding. The foe cannot be reached with his weapon without a movement (10' away). They cannot get around him because movement is simultanious. To get around Aragorn, the write must move alone around him, that allows him to intercept. Kind of a moving "attack of opportunity".

The wraiths don't want to move in, because whomever moves in first gets attacked, and they want advantage; Aragorn doesn't want to move in, because he can only engage 1-2, and the rest will flank him.

So everyone moves in 5-foot steps, everyone other wise delayin to attack the first opponent in range, and no one wanting to be the first to close range (the wraiths don't want to be attacked, aragorn doesn't want to be surrounded).

Occasionaly, that breaks, aragron engages, and somebody ends up burning. That enegagement moves Aragoen from his position defending Frodo (as he moves to avoid being flanked) allowing a Wraith to sneak closer without incurring an attack of opportunity from Aragorn.

In short, the real problem is the simultanious aspect of actual moving / fighting, which makes position more important than in DnD.

 

[Glamdring]

I wondered the same thing. This is the kind of thing that one shouldn't make the mistake of thinking of things in gaming terms. If one of my gamers were playing a character fighting a group of wraiths, even if he were a 16th level ranger (or whatever you want to think Aragorn's level is), such easy success would seem easily won. First of all, in the game, wraiths only suffer corporeal damage 50% of the time. This is a big problem in game, and I doubt Aragorn's sword was ghost-touched, and I'm certain his torch wasn't. The "DM" allowed Aragorn to win, and I think it would be obvious to any player, and perhaps it was obvious to Aragorn, though we aren't made aware of his thoughts in the movie.

The only gaming rationalization I can come up with is this:

Sauron sent a mental order to his minions to retreat for now, and strike again when the moment is better suited for the group to snatch the ring without anyone knowing it is gone. Perhaps the Evil One would rather Frodo die without fanfair, and with as little overall bloodshed as possible, so as to make it seem as if Sauron's minions are everywhere, and cannot be seen or stopped. Such a straightforward, bullheaded attack seems beneath a being such as Sauron, and of course, doesn't every villain take his or her good old time in all mediums? ;-)

 

[Memory]

In the book, didn't the Ringwraiths retreat because their horses were afraid of fire?"

 

[Desdichado]

CH, Uller: You've restored my faith! I love you guys!

And all this time I was resigned to the fact that the Nazgul had to be ineffective just because the plot demanded that they be!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

In the book, didn't the Ringwraiths retreat because their horses were afraid of fire?"

As I recall, Glorfindel said the Wraiths feared fire. Plus, at that moment, Glorfindel himself was wielding the fire. They seemed to fear Glorfindel more than fire - he confronted two groups of Nazgul, one of three, and one of two, earlier in the story (he tells Aragorn and the Hobbits about it), and they ran from him - and he pursued them.

On Weathertop, I'd say it was a combination of a few things already mentioned - Aragorn's presence, the fire, and the fact that they had wounded Frodo and simply needed to wait for him to die.

 

[Someone]

Simple. Tolkien was a mercyful and monty-haul DM. Remember how, in The Hobbit, they won two legendary swords, a magic short sword and too much gold to carry simply killing three trolls. And Smaug´s hoards was ridiculously big even for a Great Wyrm.

So when Tolkien realized he was about to kill Frodo, he said something like: "Well... hmmm... Strider appears, drive back the wraiths and save you."

Frodo´s player: "I shout <<Elbereth>> as well"

Tolkien: "That works, too. They flee in panic."

 

[Uller]

CH, Uller: You've restored my faith! I love you guys!

I don't think you should be me and the Colonel on the same level in regards to Tolkien Lore. I've probably got about 5 or 6 ranks of Knowledge (Middle Earth). The good Colonel is more like 20!

 

[Mean DM]

Frodo´s player: "I shout <<Elbereth>> as well"

IIRC, the calling out of Elbereth's name had a significant effect on the Nazgul. I forgot the sequence of events, but I think this played a factor in their flight from the hill. Some sort of turning effect.