D&D 5E How to "fix" (or at least help) the fighter/wizard dynamic. (+)

[DND_Reborn]

But that's the way Gary Gygax did it? And if it's good enough for him, it should be good enough for any D&D player!

Bring back material components!

I am pretty sure you are being sarcastic, but I am all for that. The component design in 5E is basically an after thought in most cases and hand-waved 95% of the time or better due to spellcasting foci.

 

[Faolyn]

I've seen it mentioned that one of the problems is that your weapon ability is based entirely on your stat + PB, meaning a fighter isn't going to be better than a wizard unless their stat is higher. Sure, it's unlikely that you'll get a wizard with a super-high Strength or Dex, but not impossible.

Perhaps, every X levels (starting at 3rd level, most likely), fighters should get a nonmagical attack bonus to one particular weapon type (e.g., greatswords, shortbows). Maybe a +1, maybe half their PB, maybe go full expertise. You can only use this bonus once per weapon, meaning that at 20th level, the fighter will have specialization in only a handful of weapons.

Or maybe you can use the bonus more than once per weapon: the first time increases your attack bonus, the second time increases your crit range by one.

 

[DND_Reborn]

While I don't agree with this so much...

It seems to me, 5e gets the Wizard and other caster classes moreorless correct. If anything, the Wizard is underpowered compared to the Fighter.

I agree with much of this:

Where the caster classes have problematics is:

• All spells are wildly inconsistent, differing in power compared to other spells in the same slot level. This needs a drastic overall, often reassigning spells to new slot levels.

• 5e does a great job at removing overpowered spells, but less good job at removing underpowered subpar spells.

• The Wizard class feels thematically to broad, steps on the toes of other caster classes, and can benefit from restricting spells to a chosen theme.

 

[DND_Reborn]

At the risk of sounding flippant; if both D&D 4e and PF 2e solved the problem, then why aren't you playing that?

Because I never played either, don't own either, and from what I saw both have "too much" compared to what I would like to see updated in 5E. From others' posts, I think elements of them would certainly help, but I am not looking to invest time and money into an entirely new game system.

I'm not against adding some diversity to the fighter and I don't mind a little edit to the wizard, but if you're looking for a wholesale rewrite of both classes, that magic system and the action economy to put them on equal footing, I mean D&D 4e and PF 2e are right there...

No, what you suggest is what I am looking for (personally). But, I am also trying to be helpful to others who do want more. I don't know if 4E or PF 2e are better fits for those people or not, only they can answer that.

At the risk of sounding flippant;

No, you're fine. You bring up perfectly valid concerns and your feedback/input is appreciated.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Other: the poll question is too highly-biased to answer properly as it focuses only on boosting the Fighters.

Because that is part of the fix many people seem to want, so I am focusing on that.

The solution is not to give the Fighter more superpowers, it's to a) rein in the casters by making spells harder to cast:

Which on a more personal level I agree with since my own style favors more mundane and heroic, but not superheroic play.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Perhaps, every X levels (starting at 3rd level, most likely), fighters should get a nonmagical attack bonus to one particular weapon type (e.g., greatswords, shortbows). Maybe a +1, maybe half their PB, maybe go full expertise. You can only use this bonus once per weapon, meaning that at 20th level, the fighter will have specialization in only a handful of weapons.

No! Stop pigeonholing fighters to narrow set of weapons! They should be masters of all weapons, able to grab any random sword, axe or pointy stick and proceed to massacre foes with it!

 

[DND_Reborn]

No! Stop pigeonholing fighters to narrow set of weapons! They should be masters of all weapons, able to grab any random sword, axe or pointy stick and proceed to massacre foes with it!

Actually, I can see both arguments and favor a mix myself because I don't find it reasonable at level 1 a fighter (or barbarian, paladin, or ranger) can use any weapon they pick up for the first time as well as someone trained in it.

Also, with the current system, they aren't masters of all weapons, they are proficient, and sadly (IMO) a wizard with a dagger can be just as good as a fighter with a dagger at level 1. So...

At 2nd level our Fighter class in our Mod has a feature called Master-At-Arms, which allows him to add half his proficiency bonus to any weapon he is not proficient with.

Now, we added this because we returned to specific weapon proficiencies, not broad groups. A fighter will begin by being proficient in 4-6 weapons, depending on their background. You can also choose to focus in combat, making you better with all weapons as well.

 

[Yaarel]

Great, because that is one of the issues. Do you have any suggestions for it?

I want to see the Fighter benefit from Charisma, but then it risks becoming Multi-Ability-Dependent. At the very least, choosing Charisma, Intelligence, or Wisdom as a tertiary ability should be equally good options.

If the Fighter could actually have a Warlord archetype, including a "lazy-lord" build granting actions, as well as a "coach" build granting hitpoints (enhancing alertness, offsetting fatigue, etcetera), these builds might help the whole Fighter class socially as a byproduct.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I want to see the Fighter benefit from Charisma, but then it risks becoming Multi-Ability-Dependent. At the very least, choosing Charisma, Intelligence, or Wisdom as a tertiary ability should be equally good options.

Oh, I agree! I love the idea of an INT-based fighter using tactics on the battle field, etc.

If the Fighter could actually have a Warlord archetype, including a "lazy-lord" build granting actions, as well as a "coach" build granting hitpoints (enhancing alertness, offsetting fatigue, etcetera), these builds might help the whole Fighter class socially as a byproduct.

Well, if the BM maneuvers mostly became available to the core fighter class, some of the other maneuvers along with new features could build an interesting Warlord subclass for people who want it.

Imagine a fighter build where your CHA modifier was a bonus to the HP of your retainers/henchmen? Or a function where if you spend HD, you can give the HP gained to someone else?

 

[Tinker-TDC]

Oh, speaking of fighting styles, I hate them, get rid of them! Sure give the fighters something to compensate, but get rid of the fighting styles. Seriously.

Fighting styles are the exactly wrong way to make the fighters feel like masters of weapons. Instead they pigeonhole them into limited type of weapon from the get go.

One of the biggest improvements to Fighters we've done in our home game is allowing Fighters to switch Fighting Style as a bonus action. Definitely helps them to feel like they're the weaponmaster class.

Personally I almost think the entirety of the Champion subclass should be added to the Fighter core class. It's not good enough to be it's own sub but it has enough unique things to make the Fighter feel like it actually has 'a thing' while also being flavorless enough to fit in alongside any other subclass on top of it.