how to hit on girls without being creepy?

[Rel]

They don't owe you an ego-boost, a helpful listing of what might have made them say yes, an excuse for refusing, or an explanation of their own faults that make them unsuitable for you.

I never said they did, except in the special case where they genuinely did want to "just be friends". As you point out, the role of a friend is to provide that sort of feedback. The role of somebody who has no interest in "just being friends" should be to politely decline without the use of some sort of lie.

I began this entire point as a reply to you saying "And isn't it kinder to say 'I think of you as a friend' than 'I'm out of your league'?" And I suppose, to put it more succinctly, my reply to that question would be "barely". If somebody is truly creepy and you believe that you might be in immediate physical danger or in danger of them stalking you over the long term then use whatever means are necessary in order to extricate yourself from the situation.

If, on the other hand, this person's only crime is that you are not in any way interested in getting involved with them, I think it the kinder route to simply say so rather than to pretend in a friendship that you hope never exists.

I find it vaguely amusing and also rather sad that after TB rolled into the thread and trotted out the classic "Be a jerk" modus operandi, the response was (I'm paraphrasing a lot) "It is far better to treat women as people. And keep in mind that these people will lie to you in a heartbeat, given the slightest bit of discomfort on their part at you asking them out when they'd rather you didn't."

I'm going to try this next time I close a thread. "I'm really sorry. It's not you, it's me. Klunk."

I know you're kidding, PC, but this makes for a good analogy. One of the things that I like about you as a Mod is that you don't wield your power capriciously and without explanation. You usually have already provided a warning by the time you close a thread and usually provide an explanation when you do. I would assume this is because you have some shred of care about the long term viability of a poster on this board. You want them to develop good posting habits so you let them know what they are doing wrong with the hopes that they'll correct those habits in the future or at least understand being banned if they continue in those infractions of the rules (though I've virtually never seen this happen).

 

[Talvisota]

Haven't bothered to read all of the posts save the first page, but I want to counter what one oftern hears on this subject.

"Be yourself?" Not a good idea, since very few of us know who we really are in the first place. I was unsuccessful in this arena until I learned that this isn't the best advice for the first few contacts with the intended individual or individuals.

Don't be yourself, be the guy who gets l**d.

 

[tarchon]

I think this whole thread is kind of creepy.

Oohh, we made a Slaanesh demon feel ooky!

 

[Teflon Billy]

Haven't bothered to read all of the posts save the first page, but I want to counter what one oftern hears on this subject.

"Be yourself?" Not a good idea, since very few of us know who we really are in the first place. I was unsuccessful in this arena until I learned that this isn't the best advice for the first few contacts with the intended individual or individuals.

Don't be yourself, be the guy who gets l**d.

I'll see that someone issues you your uniform and your ID Badge. Welcome aboard

The reason I originally chimed in to this thread was that folks were lining up to tell the guy to "Be Himself", when he had made it pretty clear that Being Himself wasn't getting it done.

 

[tetsujin28]

"Be yourself" is just about the worst advice anyone could give. You need to be your idealized self, the one that's cool and that all the chixxorz dig.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

"Be yourself" is just about the worst advice anyone could give. You need to be your idealized self, the one that's cool and that all the chixxorz dig.

Yeah, like that episode of BtVS, where Xander gets split into two, and everyone loves Confident Xander.

Only don't bring that up in conversations with chicks...

 

[Snoweel]

the response was (I'm paraphrasing a lot) "It is far better to treat women as people. And keep in mind that these people will lie to you in a heartbeat, given the slightest bit of discomfort on their part at you asking them out when they'd rather you didn't."

Treating women as people is perfect advice for getting their knickers off.

True.

Just bear in mind that if you believe every word that people say, and give them respect they haven't earned, and supplicate to people in the hope they'll find your sad devotion attractive, then you almost deserve to be used and discarded.

 

[Jonny Nexus]

Actually, I think it *does* let someone down easily. Would you rather have someone tell you that lie, or truthfully list all the ways in which you don't measure up?

The problem is that when a woman says "I want us to be friends" (either after declining a request for a date or when dumping you at the end of a relationship) she might mean either of two things...

a) That she wishes to persue a long-term platonic friendship with you.

b) That she never wants to have any contact with you ever again, whatsoever, and following the termination of the current conversation will, from that point on, ignore any email mails, text messages, phone calls (i.e. if on mobile she will not answer, if on landline she will use her answerphone to screen our messages) and letters you send until you realise that when she said "I want us to be friends" she actually means "go away and never contact me ever again, for the rest of your life.

...and we blokes have no way of knowing which one she means.

Not that I'm in anyway bitter.

The point is, I'm not a stalker. If I send an email and it's ignored, I might perhaps send one follow-up text message (because the email might have got lost), and if that's ignored I'll assume that she doesn't want to have anything to do with me. I won't phone because I have a general policy of not phoning people if I'm not sure if they want to speak to me. (And when I am speaking to people we tend to carry on most "conversations" via email or text, so it would seem strange to suddenly switch to phoning them).

I don't mind that they don't want to speak to me. Relationship breakups can be painful and often the best way of coping with that is to break all contact, and the awkwardness of an unrequited interest can be similarly handled.

I just wish the girl would be honest in these cases. I think it's very cruel to 100% stop speaking to someone (after insisting to their face that you were going to do the opposite) on the assumption that the dumb [expetive deleted] will eventually figure out that you don't want to speak to him. You're not sparing the bloke pain, just making sure that you won't have to witness it, and also serving that pain with a huge side order of confusion and uncertainty.

By the way, I'm not saying that men are overall nicer in relationships. In fact, I suspect that if we totted up all the cruel things both sexes do, men as a gender would have a much higher total than women. I just think that in this case men - perhaps through caring less - are more likely to be honest and just tell the woman to go away. Which I think causes less pain in the long run.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

The problem is that when a woman says "I want us to be friends" (either after declining a request for a date or when dumping you at the end of a relationship) she might mean either of two things...

a) That she wishes to persue a long-term platonic friendship with you.

b) That she never wants to have any contact with you ever again, whatsoever, and following the termination of the current conversation will, from that point on, ignore any email mails, text messages, phone calls (i.e. if on mobile she will not answer, if on landline she will use her answerphone to screen our messages) and letters you send until you realise that when she said "I want us to be friends" she actually means "go away and never contact me ever again, for the rest of your life.

I do believe I'm in that sort of situation right now. A woman that I dated, which didn't work out, now has about $90 worth of my stuff (a DVD and a school textbook). I've been trying for two months to get them back, but she keeps putting me off. All I want is my damn stuff, then she can go jump off a bridge for all I care (I've made every effort to stay friends, and been blown off for months, so it's obvious she isn't interested).

There should be a rule: if you're going to discard a guy, give him back his freaking stuff first.

 

[Xath]

The problem with explaining why you use the nice rejections is that it oftentimes gives the Dumb & Dumber "So...you're saying there's still a chance" reaction. And I know I've never used the "I'd rather just be friends." line when I didn't mean just that. Especially at the end of a relationship. Initially it can be uncomfortable, but I've managed to stay friends with all of my ex's.

Jonny, sometimes there's another reason.

c) You have horrible horrible timing. Something has happened recently which has made me want to steer clear of relationships for a while. Had you asked me a month ago...

As far as turning down strangers is concerned, I find that the "I'm already seeing someone" excuse is relatively painless for all parties involved, even if it's not true.