How to make a player stop being a paladin

[Aluvial]

Let him play the character but put him in a catch 22, where he will lose his Paladinhood no matter which option he chooses.

I just watched Spider Man last night, and was thinking about the point where he can save either the bus load of nuns (or whatever) or his best girl. Now Spiderman saves the day and manages both, but your paladin shouldn't be able too....

When the action is done he loses his status....


How about in the next town there are two simultaneous fires across the street from each other. The paladin hears cries for help from both buildings... You tell him that he must choose quickly, both buildings are on the verge of collapse. One of the buildings has the villains trying to lure the paladin away from the real people in need; the other is a house full of nuns... No matter which building the paladin chooses, it is the one with the villains who then bring the roof down on him and trap him in the burning rubble. He won't die but the nuns will.... he escape with some good burn scars (I'd lower his Charisma too...)

When he loses his paladinhood and starts to cry, you can tell him that he should have detected evil first and then he would have been able to make the right choice....

I know that this is weak, but it was off the top of my head... You can make the catch-22 as interesting as you want, but either way the paladin goes, he loses...

Aluvial

 

[Dash Dannigan]

I have to agree with Foxhound Paladins have got to be the easiest class to mess with. Your player appears to believe Paladins are the most self-sufficient, thus he chooses this class. I suggest you simply alter his thinking through experience. Make the PC realize that it IS difficult to play a Paladin. Force his PC to make sacrifices, hard decisions, and such. Challenge this PC with things like Traps and magic. Even better force him into a brief separation and see how he does on his own with out the rest of the party...

 

[Spatzimaus]

You shouldn't put players into unwinnable situations just to be mean. If you have a burning house full of bad guys and a burning house full of nuns, decide beforehand which is which. Don't just have it always fall in the way that hurts the player. So, there's a 50% chance he picks right and get the nuns out (in which case, what happens to the bad guys?)
(Also, look at the specifics of Detect Evil; it's like See Invisibility, a lot of people get it wrong)

This is why I put "talk to the player" at the top of my list. It's just bad to metagame the encounter so that the good guy has no chance. Your players will hate it, not just the Paladin. Here's the big question: would you hate it if one of the other players decided HE wanted to be a Paladin?

Anyway, it's really easy to tailor an adventure to hurt Paladins. Dungeons? No horses. Neutral enemies? There go a lot of special abilities. Fuzzy morality? Use the code of conduct against them. They've got good buffs? Okay, but they have a really lousy caster level, so one targetted dispel and there it all goes.

 

[Dreaddisease]

I agree with Spatzimus.

Talk first. If that doesn't work then I would do the pass the character campaign. There is one person who said his DM rolled up the characters, made them cool and then handed them out to each player.

Do everything you can out of game. If this person is still insistant on playing a paladin then ask him if he is a role player or a roll player, and that your game is a role playing game and he is not welcome.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

If you don't want the player to play a paladin, either ask him not to or let everyone know that in your next campaign, paladins will not be an permitted class.

I would recommend against a passive aggressive approach of saying "sure, you can play a paladin but I'm not happy about it" and then either setting up scenarios for the purpose of screwing the player for choosing what you said was a valid choice or conspiring with the other players to make sure that he can't have fun role-playing a paladin.

If you don't intend to allow him to play a paladin, say so. That way, at least you're honest about it. If the player is going to walk because of that or if he's your friend and you want him to keep playing, you won't avoid confrontation by not telling him the facts up front. All you're likely to accomplish is making the situation more difficult when he does walk. If the situation is that you want to continue playing with the individual but you don't want him to play a paladin and he's unwilling to play anything else then you'll just have to choose whether you want to continue playing with him despite his "cookie cutter characters". And, since you may have to make that choice, you're probably best off being honest and up-front about it.

 

[Stalker0]

If this guy is a friend, then you have to change his mindset about paladins. Just telling me not to play won't solve the bigger problems. But the party in scenarios where the palys abilities are weak, and the others are bad ass. Perhaps if you can show him the power of some other classes, then he'll understand.

If he continues to want to play a paladin, let me do it, but with a twist. Make him a fallen paly, or a paly of a weird god, or with a weird quest. My last paly was slightly crazy, his god was in his head Even if he's the same class, doesn't mean he can't play a new and interesting character if you alter the play requirments a bit.

And if none of that works, tell him to pack sand

 

[Caliban]

Try a little negative re-inforcement.

Make up two new PC's, one a paladin, the other a wizard with an 8 Con.

Have the paladin character sheet guarded by a rabid pit bull, and ask the player to go pick up the PC he wants to play. If he complains, tell him that it's X-Treme roleplaying, and being a paladin requires sacrifice.

Or just use a roll-up newspaper and smack his hand everytime he touches the paladin character sheet.

 

[Orco42]

Caliban- I love you.

Or you could play an evil campaign. Then if he does play a paladin just let the other players rip him apart.

 

[Pielorinho]

Thorne, I think you might be losing sight of the reason to play the game -- you're all playing to have fun, right?

You need to decide whether the way this guy has fun (i.e., playing the same character over and over) is so awful that it ruins everyone else's fun.

The best advice might be to live with it. If he likes playing a paladin over and over, more power to him.

We have someone in our group who almost always plays a character with +12 or higher in Tumble. He really, really likes playing someone who can bounce all around the battlefield. It fulfills some deep-seated desire in him, I guess.

More power to him, I say. Let him bounce. He helps us out in the game, he plays distinct personalities, and he's a fun guy. What do I care if all his characters share this trait?

Now, if your player is doing something annoying with his paladins -- if they're constantly preaching at everyone in a no-fun way, or if he's ignoring the other players, or if he's not holding to a strict alignment -- then that's a problem. But it's not a problem with his playing paladins over and over -- it's a problem with his roleplaying skills.

Daniel

 

[Vexed]

I believe I have to agree (mostly) with Dreaddisease.

"Do everything you can out of game. If this person is still insistant on playing a paladin then ask him if he is a role player or a roll player, and that your game is a role playing game and he is not welcome."

However, (and i don't know the situation) but to me it sounds like you may have a problem with the person more than the character he is running. You said its the same "character" every time. Not just because he is a paladin. You can have the same character class and a totally different personality with seperate characters. You could have this problem with any players. I subscribe to the idea that a person plays a character for their own enjoyment, not yours. Forcing them to play something they dont want to defeats the point of playing in their minds (it would in mind). What happens when the cynical, self serving drow rogue type of PC's gets the thumbs down? (Im sick of his con artist, smug attitude. It's the same thing with all his characters. He's always a smart ass.). Its the same scenario, it does not have to be becasue he is a "paladin". Unless of course the gourp consists of people who feel "paladins" are annoying in general regardless of who plays them and feel they can't role play their own characters with him in the party. I disagree, it would take time/effort and could be fun, but just my opinion. But forcing him into no win situations is not a good idea to solve this problem which could happen again and again. He picks a fighter, or mage and acts the same way. He just finds a way to maximize/power game with their abilites. But your still playing with the same character he just traded in his armor and two handed sword for robes and a staff. Same guy. I would ask him if he thinks he can play a different type of personality, and bring up opportunites that a paladin could not have becasue he is so restricted (LG only). At least ask him to TRY and play a diffferent class, and more importantly a different PERSONALITY. (THe roll play vs. role play) Can you try that for us? If it doesnt work you can go back to your paladin but you have to give it an honest effort, and not let people ride him about his new character. It would take some time if he is as adament as you say. If he wont compromise then i would say its him, not his character.