D&D 5E (2014) How To Make High Level 5E Work.For You +

[Zardnaar]

Sorry, should have linked your name to it.

I have descent into Avernus. Haven't run it though, might now that group finished the Planescape adventure. First part looks REALLY linear and then it seems to open up.

I might just take the end bits and adapt to my, now 18th level, group.

Have a look at the Bhaalists. Specifically the unstoppable mechanic.

Look at Rakshasa in 5.5 MM.

Marilith as well. Specifically its reactions.

Look at Mythic mechanic in Theros and Fizbans.

See where im going with this? 5E has the ingredients already.

 

[bloodtide]

Can you expand on this? One comment I hear frequently is that it's too hard to kill high-level PCs, so how do you get character death to work for you in that case?

(Me personally, I almost had a TPK at level 17 in one memorable game. But that was largely due to player miscalculation.)

No Buddy DM, Agressive DM, No free information, lots of homebrew, and no questions. Go along way to make it easy to kill characters.

Just take "a lot of games" with an encounter with a by-the-book Lich. With those underwhelming spells and abilities. Of course a Homebrewed lich with all sorts of spells and abilities is much better in every way.

Few DMs would even use the Lich's Finger of Death spell....as that might kill a PC. Of course, not being a Buddy Dm say you can use it and kill poor Bob's character on round one of combat. But the Buddy DM would never do that, it would "ruin Bob's fun", so the Lich uses....wow..acid arrow.

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Not allowing the 15 minute days of resting all the time also can kill characters. Most players go nova after maybe three combats and will want to "rest". And Buddy DMs allow this. Fight...use up all your stuff....rest...repeat.

Of course it is "no fun" to play a character that has used up all of it's stuff. But they are 100% easier to kill.

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The environment. It might be "hard" to kill any PCs when all fights take place in a flat blank area. Of, course anywhere else.

I love the tree village or cave village. A huge 3-d and 360 area. It is a huge challenge to players to move around.

Mid air, underwater and in space also work great. The 360 area often overwhelms players.

 

[dave2008]

No Buddy DM, Agressive DM, No free information, lots of homebrew, and no questions. Go along way to make it easy to kill characters.

Just take "a lot of games" with an encounter with a by-the-book Lich. With those underwhelming spells and abilities. Of course a Homebrewed lich with all sorts of spells and abilities is much better in every way.

Few DMs would even use the Lich's Finger of Death spell....as that might kill a PC. Of course, not being a Buddy Dm say you can use it and kill poor Bob's character on round one of combat. But the Buddy DM would never do that, it would "ruin Bob's fun", so the Lich uses....wow..acid arrow.

---
Not allowing the 15 minute days of resting all the time also can kill characters. Most players go nova after maybe three combats and will want to "rest". And Buddy DMs allow this. Fight...use up all your stuff....rest...repeat.

Of course it is "no fun" to play a character that has used up all of it's stuff. But they are 100% easier to kill.

------------------------
The environment. It might be "hard" to kill any PCs when all fights take place in a flat blank area. Of, course anywhere else.

I love the tree village or cave village. A huge 3-d and 360 area. It is a huge challenge to players to move around.

Mid air, underwater and in space also work great. The 360 area often overwhelms players.

Any DM can kill a PC or get a TPK with trivially effort. The art of the DM is an making a challenging, interesting, exciting, and engaging encounter that doesn't lead to a TPK.

 

[touc]

I've run some 5E epic campaigns (levels 14+), and here's my take:

Universal

• D&D monster manual bosses are underwhelming. I believe every single one needs "phases" of battle changes (e.g. at 75%, they shed any disabling spells, and something new happens like reinforcements or tapping into the cages of villagers to begin powering itself, at 50% this happens, and so on).
• High level play needs times for those epic non-combat abilities to shine. Running a kingdom and an emergency comes up, use that mass fly like a cloud ability or teleport circles, and so on.
• Giving out magic items, especially boosts to attacks, saves, and AC, change the game dramatically. That's ok, but you can't rely on CR at this point.
• Reinforcements. Since it's impossible to judge encounter strength at high levels, waves of enemies let the DM add a challenge if needed (or you can forgo it if not). You can't rely on a prewritten # of monsters anymore. Deep down, from a mechanical standpoint, back to the AD&D days, players were meant to exhaust resources on their way to the BBEG finale. It was just a matter of logistics whether these were potions, scrolls, spells, HP, and so on.
• Terrain matters. I had a side trek once into a pocket dimension from a Dungeon Magazine adventure wherein it was a cube base on the negative plane. If you bypassed the wrong wall, goodbye forever. Players weren't robbed of their abilities. Rather, they had to be judicious when using.

Out of the Abyss (15th)

• Demon lords as written were pathetic. These are eons-old demigods and they shouldn't just fall over to some folks who picked up a sword just a few weeks ago. I went with the finale option of letting the players each control a demon lord in a royal rumble, and having the characters face the winner.
• My demon lords were resistant to +2 or less (or a weapon wielded by another demon lord or demigod), immune to +1 or less, had Rakshasa spell resistance (unless that spell cast by a peer, as above), proficiency in all saves, and increased AC and HP. It made for a halfway balanced battle in the end with Yeenoghu.

Kingmaker (Paizo)(16th)

• The finale area was a fey realm ruled by a mythical being where the jabberwock and other fairy tale story critters (all foreshadowed from level 1 with kids singing songs about them) roamed. In fey world, nothing is permanent. The party learned that in 24 hours, the entire realm would reset. Every monster you slew would be back, every wall you breached restored (except if you took out the ruler as she set these rules). Every alliance you made, forgotten, and so on. It made for a fascinating trek as the party balanced resources vs. the time crunch.
• Like above, the boss operated on phases for her finale battle.
• 3E had "teleportation traps" and I imported these. Kings and the uber powerful would ward their castles and bases with this spell which redirects your teleportation to, usually, a death trap.

Dragonlance original modules (16th)

• Finale battle was all about the terrain/quest, finding a particular "foundation stone" amongst a massive chamber with dozens of columns to search. Meanwhile, a BBEG tried to thwart them, the party needed to keep the bad guys from wrestling a vital NPC (who while immortal could be restrained and his immortality ended if the bad guys took him to a particular room), deal with cultists who were imbuing the bad guys with blessings, and face endless mooks from the Abyss (the longer the battle drags on, the more come through).
• My BBEG could burn 5 HP a pop to shed an effect, inspired by A5E (whose character rules we used this campaign) monsters that could use legendary resistance but lost things like AC when they did (e.g. a dragon's scales cracked).
• Summary: the finale wasn't about bashing Hit Points. High level PCs are insanely powerful, so something else needs to challenge them.

Curse of Strahd (10th)

• This gets honorable mention. While 10th isn't epic, the finale should be. I worked up a boss who couldn't be beaten in his home lair (if run properly, his guerilla tactic of "strafe and withdraw to heal" should be invincible) unless the party learned, through research, lore, and NPCs, what causes a genius tactician to lose it.
• It's guidance to Bosses 101.