D&D (2024) How to reign in full casters for 1D&D? Maybe remove 6th to 9th level spells as a Variant rule.

[Undrave]

What flexibility are you referring to, can you elaborate? The neovancian(?) Style used in 5e does more to eliminate the opportunity cost of preparing a niche spell over some other spell or having some allotment of a given spell instead of a different allotment than adding flexibility. Scrolls were always a thing for flexibility, they just had a cost in terms of time gold and sometimes container interactions or DC reductions from using a scroll instead of slot.

The flexibility of changing your spell list. What’s the point of a Cleric or Druid being able to learn any of their spells if they never change their spell list at all? It’s just an extra consideration (“Should I switch this spell I never use?”) that adds to the mental weight of playing a caster.

Ultimately, I just don’t like Vancian casting, especially the old school one. It’s needless complex for what amounts to dropping plot coupons. It only feels ‘magical’ if you’re used to it, otherwise it’s just a long series of arbitrary rules. There’s tons of games that have different magic system and, at this point, D&D just sticks with their Vancian variations just because people expect it.

 

[tetrasodium]

The flexibility of changing your spell list. What’s the point of a Cleric or Druid being able to learn any of their spells if they never change their spell list at all? It’s just an extra consideration (“Should I switch this spell I never use?”) that adds to the mental weight of playing a caster.

Ultimately, I just don’t like Vancian casting, especially the old school one. It’s needless complex for what amounts to dropping plot coupons. It only feels ‘magical’ if you’re used to it, otherwise it’s just a long series of arbitrary rules. There’s tons of games that have different magic system and, at this point, D&D just sticks with their Vancian variations just because people expect it.

Except they do make small changes here & there. Prior to 5e casters actually tended to make more changes to their spell list because they needed to consider things like how many of each spell to prepare & maybe coordinate with others in the group to maximize capabilities with minimal opportunity cost. Now in 5e you have casters who aren't squishy & minimized opportunity cost or risk in prepping a spell that might not get used.

 

[Shardstone]

I will say, the idea of 6-9 being a variant rule is actually a little bit appealing. Get up to 5th level slots at 9th level but having a lot more slots could be a fun aesthetic. Might work best with spell points though.

 

[HammerMan]

I will say, the idea of 6-9 being a variant rule is actually a little bit appealing. Get up to 5th level slots at 9th level but having a lot more slots could be a fun aesthetic. Might work best with spell points though.

I like it

 

[Bacon Bits]

I guess my question is: What 6th-level spells are a problem? I've been quite vocal in the past that I think 7th-level and higher spells are broken -- either useless or overpowered or circumventing adventure structure in non-productive ways -- but I've not seen any 6th-level spells cause a problem. Planar Ally is a problem, but that's because summoning and shapechanging spells are also broken if they're pulling from NPC entries.

 

[amethal]

Except they do make small changes here & there. Prior to 5e casters actually tended to make more changes to their spell list because they needed to consider things like how many of each spell to prepare & maybe coordinate with others in the group to maximize capabilities with minimal opportunity cost. Now in 5e you have casters who aren't squishy & minimized opportunity cost or risk in prepping a spell that might not get used.

I agree. (And I'm still in the "prior to 5e phase".)

For instance, I played a Druid in Pathfinder who never prepared Rusting Grasp - apart from when a bunch of freebooters turned up in an ironclad ship and started throwing their weight around.

The next day the hull of their ship mysteriously rusted away in four places below the waterline, creating a nice new artificial reef on the bottom of the bay.

 

[Scott Christian]

Just jumping on board, so I may be jumping the gun. But maybe you could make all 6th-9th spells rituals, with some taking an hour and others taking days?

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

here is a list from another thread about spells you may need to think and work around

How To Handle Spells That Can Derail Your D&D Game

Have you ever had a spell completely derail your entire D&D adventure? I've heard a few horror stories, including one where a druid used speak with animals and a few pointed questions to uncover the adventure's surprise villain within the first ten minutes. Or the time Taliesin Jaffe's character...

www.thearcanelibrary.com

 

[mellored]

Level 6 spells recharge every week.
Level 7 spells recharge every month.
Level 8 spells recharge every year.
Level 9 spells recharge every decade.

*or when you level up.

 

[Horwath]

Level 6 spells recharge every week.
Level 7 spells recharge every month.
Level 8 spells recharge every year.
Level 9 spells recharge every decade.

*or when you level up.

so, less than a week then?