How tough is City of the Spider Queen?

Well, another session done and my opinion of CotSQ is that it is pure drivel and sucks as both a dungeon crawl and a would-be epic, which is the same opinion I had going in, only now it's backed up by fact, rather than reviews and gut instinct. Pure uninspired hack-n-slash that is practically no fun at all, because instead of CHOOSING to brave Acererak's Tomb of Horrors or some such peril (knowing you can quit whenever you like in search of easier loot), you are railroaded into an endless SAVE THE WORLD meatgrinder with no hope of escape. Shame on WoTC. This module stinks worse than anything I can remember in recent D&D history.

I charmed a demon ghoul, who is great at tagging along and obediently devouring the life essences of our victims so they can't rise again as anything but minor, mindless undead (we delighted in torturing a drow with this knowledge before letting the beast eat her alive for our own personal amusement). We posted "Lolth Lives!" in her blood on the cave wall and defiled the bodies of the other Kiaransalee drow sentries.

We've taken surprisingly little damage (most of us only lost about 50% of our hit points due to an ice storm and a few other spells), and only a couple of us barely escaped death, which is not to say we didn't feel challenged. We did. But a well-timed/placed cloudkill that beat the SR of every single drow in its path (most of whom instantly died) made the battle to take Szith Morcane a bit anticlimactic (first time I ever cast it and it killed about a dozen drow on two different web levels, directly or indirectly (some chose to jump off the path and became webbed-up spider-food or splat-burgers below. The gargantuan spider was driven off. We made it to the Bazaar but that sucked, too. Wussy duergar and a mind flayer trying to sell crap no one would ever want to buy. We didn't attack them, though their crapy merchandise almost made me kill them all out of spite! Treasure has been limited to a four magic mithril shirts, four magic rapiers, and nothing else, though I just have my imp cast detect magic (at will) on bodies and we don't bother to loot them if nothing lights up as magic... We'd be more thorough, but there's this nagging issue of "MUST SAVE THE WORLD IN RECORD TIME" ringing in our heads. What good is treasure to the dead? So anything we can grab right away that looks magical is what we are limiting ourselves to. Plus, all that mithril armor is filling up our heward's handy haversack faster than we thought (about 30% full).

I'm trying to negotiate with the mind flayer in the bazaar to plane shft our group to Maerimydra so we can bypass much of the garbage encounters along the way, but the DM seems opposed to the idea. We could plane shift without the illithid, but I'm not sure how that works, whether we could arrive at our target destination accurately or not, as we've never been there.

GAWD, this module blows chunks. I can't wait for it to be over. XP and treasure are meaningless if they come from this kind of torture. The priest of Bane and my wizard were so upset and frustrated over the way events were unfolding that we started arguing, insulting and then casting dominate person on each other (we made our saves, so it was a draw). We promised to try another such duel tomorrow if the situation didn't improve to our liking. The DM seemed surprised that we were behaving this way, almost childish chaotic evil, he said. I said, the duel had rules we abided by, so it was LE, lol. He's lucky we weren't calling down flame strikes. ;)

We don't care about doing this adventure at all and just want to leave, but of course, we've been railroaded into it, so now we are nihilistic and willing to die stupidly at each other's throats if that will end the torture of going through this lame adventure (it's certainly more fun attacking each other than playing the module as written). The DM promised he'd "shortened" it, but it's not short enough for us. Sucks, sucks, sucks. And it only keeps getting worse, with no end in sight. Apparently, you guys are saying the end is almost impossible short of godlike power, so either we will all die horribly, or we will get so sick of it we will jump ship and switch sides to Kiaransalee and become undead, or the DM will introduce some lame-o deus-ex machina to save the day.

The DM doesn't believe in giving us full XP for finding ways around killing our opponents (either through outwitting, subverting or driving them off) in most cases, so I'm sure we will be jacked when it comes to leveling, which means we're dead when it comes to beating the bad guys at the end. How are we supposed to get through a meatgrinder without going up many levels? First, the DM complains about how we're advancing too fast, then he puts us through a total hackfest and jacks us on the XP. Don't get me wrong, I love my DM, he's my best friend for many years now, but he's lost his mind. :) We're trying to put on smiles and go through the motions to please him, and trying to inject some enthusiasm into our characters, but it's hard when a module is so completely incompatible with our playing style.

He can't even call it off now or it will be even lamer than going through it. The only thing to do is shorten it drastically (a few more sessions), introduce some crappy deus-ex machina from Bane, and teleport us home so we can go back to having fun again.
 
Last edited:

log in or register to remove this ad


Drakmar said:
well.. my party is doing CotSQ as well.. and well.. we are romping through it.. combine Rings of the Darkhidden.. and the blindsight spell.. and no light.. Drow have a real hard time dealing with that. You kill them.. and they don't know you are coming...

*snicker* We did the same thing.

As for your party, though, I have to agree... you're a bit outclassed by the enemies there, what with such a small and somewhat low level party.

Our GM had told us he'd be ruthless, so we used tactics like the aforementioned ring of the darkhidden and brutal class combos (Cleric of Shevarash *drool*), and wreaked havoc on the module.
 

I forgot to mention I did use my seeming spell to make us all look like drow worshippers of Kiaransalee. That trick didn't work so good, as none of us could answer any tough questions. Its most effective use was in the bazaar. I thought mind flayers were smart enough to see through illusions? Maybe ol' squidface was playing along. He sure asked us a lot of probing questions that had nothing to do with trade, like "What is causing your fellow drow to fall from above?" :p Very interested in why we "drow" were fighting amongst ourselves when Kiaransalee had supposedly united us. "We are clearing out the weak to make room for the strong; we did not kill them so much as liberate their corpses to be raised by Kiaransalee's magic." :rolleyes:

Anyway, if I sounded bitter before, well, I am. That said, I always manage to have fun hanging out with my friends even if the game we're running leaves something to be desired. But this module is killing me, lol. The absolute antithesis of what I enjoy.

I forgot I have the No Light cantrip from BoVD; should use it next time. Where is the ring of the darkhidden and blindsight spell?

Here's our fugitive, rag-tag group fleeing from the Cylon tyranny, LOL (Note: any rules discrepancies are the result of house rules that allow us to enter PrCs a level early if we can use that level's requirements to satisfy the skills/feats necessary, plus some organizational/training benefits that grant us extra class skills, bonus skill points, bonuses to skills, etc. from house rules, Kalamar Player's Guide, Bastion's Guildcraft, or FFG's Path of series):

1. (PC) Human Wizard (Cjr) 4/Master Summoner 2/Mindbender 1/Nar Demonbinder 1/Theurgist (of Bane) 1/Mystic 2 (PrCs that force you to lose a level of spellcasting progression suck, so she just snags the 1st level abilities with +1 existing class level, which are usually better than going up in the rest of the PrC and taking the spellcasting hit)

2. (DM's PC) Human Cleric (of Bane) 6/Divine Disciple 1/Mystic 3 (we redid his character to lose the fighter level he never used and the two worthless levels of divine disciple he'd taken out of laziness--what a rotten PrC except for the extra domain)

3. (PC) Half-Human/Half-Red Dragon Fighter 2/Rogue 4/forgot his PrCs, but he's 11th level equivalent after losing a level for being resurrected thanks to a finger of death spell)

4. (NPC) Human Wizard (Evoker) 8

5. (NPC) Fiendish Ogre/Barbarian 1 (5th level equivalent)

6. (NPC) Orc Barbarian 5

7. (My wizard's COHORT) Human Fighter 2/Wizard (Transmuter) 4

8. (NPC) Drow Fighter 2/Rogue 4/Dark Dancer 2

9. (NPC) Drow Mercenary Ranger 3/Cleric 4

10. (NPC) Drow Mercenary Ranger 3/Myrmidon 4

PrCs from third party publishers: Mercenary Rangers and Myrmidons (fighter/wizards) are from AEG's Mercenaries. Theurgist is from AEG's Magic. Dark Dancer and Master Summoner are from Green Ronin's Plot & Poison.

Mystic is the greatest PrC ever (Dragon #274). 2-3 bonus spells every level, extra languages every even level, permanent no cost metamagic boost to one spell every odd level.

Commonly used "utility" spells: Seeming, Mass Darkvision.

So with this LE/NE group and this adventure, we are all gonna die, right? I'm almost 12th level, but the DM refused to hand out XP this week saying he'd do it next time. :mad: I want more 6th level spells!!!
 
Last edited:

Iron_Chef said:

So with this LE/NE group and this adventure, we are all gonna die, right? I'm almost 12th level, but the DM refused to hand out XP this week saying he'd do it next time. :mad: I want more 6th level spells!!!

In my opinion, this adventure is one of the best released by Wizards. It looks like all of your problems are with the DM, his personality and style.

If you are really suffering so much, then find a new DM. If you are enjoying yourself, then I see no need to vent your furstrations on the module.
 

gfunk said:


In my opinion, this adventure is one of the best released by Wizards. It looks like all of your problems are with the DM, his personality and style.

If you are really suffering so much, then find a new DM. If you are enjoying yourself, then I see no need to vent your furstrations on the module.

We'll have to disagree here. I think CoTSQ is pure junk; you think it's great. Any module that forces the players to save the world, traps them in an area and then railroads them through a meatgrinder with little opportunity for roleplaying other thinking of a clever one-liner while hacking-n-slashing, is a shining example of what's wrong with adventure design and D&D in particular. "The world's most popular RPG" should have official support for more intelligent, RP-oriented styles of play both in the rulebooks and adventures, not the constant focus on video game power-ups that plague 3e game design. None of the official adventures are particularly clever or exciting, just "back to the dungeon" meatgrinders any hack could write. They're not even good dungeon crawls like back in 1e. Just souped-up "extreme" carbon copies with a seeming target audience of 13 year old boys in mind; horrible art in most cases, too. Drives me nuts.

Our DM is normally great at winging it and brilliant at portraying NPCs (strangely enough, he absolutely sucks as a player when forced to focus on one character, lol), but his time is currently limited and despite years of advance knowledge that this is precisely the kind of adventure we hate, he's running it anyway, and inflicting in-game penalties on us for dragging our feet, using our religion against us, stripping us of everything and everyone we hold dear. Heavy-handed. It just seems like an extraordinarily bad fit (though annihilating those pesky drow with my cloudkill was great fun in an otherwise completely unmemorable session).

We can't just "go find another group or DM" as you suggest. The option is to play or not to play, to scrap the campaign or continue on. It sucks to throw in the towel at 11th level after all the work I've put in to building my PC, complete with detailed family history, resulting mental and emotional states, etc., slow building of personal and business relationships, etc. The DM just throws all that in the dumpster and expects us to rejoice in endless brain-dead slaughter? Maybe if I'd built my character as a combat monster with a double digit I.Q. I wouldn't complain. But the messages this adventure and DM is sending are:

1. "never worship any god because I will use your faith to railroad you. same goes for organizations; don't join them either"

2. "never bother to build intricate personal or fiscal relationships because they can be taken away at a moment's notice without warning."

3. "never do anything that doesn't focus on making you a combat monster with no ties to the world around you or your character will suck and you will die screaming in an endless dungeon crawl mega-meatgrinder." :mad:

I love my DM, but he should know better. Everytime I step in to substitute DM, he complains the adventures require too much thinking and he lets everyone else do all the brain work. Then he says he feels "inspired" and jumps back in to DM, and everything is awesome for awhile, couldn't be better, no complaints at all, but sooner or later, he makes a bad decision like dumping CoTSQ on our heads, and we wonder what the heck happened to our awesome campaign! *sigh* He should have come to me and asked me to fill in for awhile until his schedule cleared up.
 
Last edited:

Looks like we have similar tastes, Iron_Chef. My co-DM bought CotSQ as well, but he decided not to run it "because it is just pure hack&slash". Our group prefers roleplaying over combat, and I even apologized in advance when I ran a plot arc that centered on an assault on Murann, which lead to some combat-heavy sessions (one session was just 2 big fights, with some important roleplaying bit thrown in).
 

I don't object to a tough fight or two per session, especially if it is dramatic and central to advancing the plot (and sandwiched in between some juicy roleplaying opportunities), but I do object to being trapped in "meatgrinder central" on the "railroad express" with no way out watching everything I've built up over the past six months (as DM for the first couple sessions, then as a player) get slashed and burned.
 
Last edited:

Iron_Chef said:
(CotSQ is pure torture and I hate it)

Well, here's my advice. If every second of going through this module is pure torture for you, and you aren't having any fun whatsoever, and all your fellow players feel the same way, I suggest you all sit down with your DM and tell him so. Make sure you convey just how much you hate every second of the module and how you'd rather be doing anything else. Make sure you tell him that D&D is a game, and a game is supposed to be fun, and you aren't having any fun.

After all that, if he still tries to force you to continue playing the module, get a new DM. Period. D&D is a game, and if you're not having fun, there's no point in playing. And as far as "We can't stop now that we've started, it'd be lame" - you can and should stop if this is really how you feel. Just pretend it never happened. Move on to something else. It's easy.

Now, having said that, I recommend trying to cut your DM a little slack. Just going by your posts in this thread, you don't sound like the easiest group in the world to game with. You also sound like you had decided to hate this module before you even started playing - which isn't a recipe for a good gaming experience for anyone involved.
 
Last edited:

Iron_Chef said:


We'll have to disagree here. I think CoTSQ is pure junk; you think it's great. Any module that forces the players to save the world, traps them in an area and then railroads them through a meatgrinder with little opportunity for roleplaying other thinking of a clever one-liner while hacking-n-slashing, is a shining example of what's wrong with adventure design and D&D in particular. "The world's most popular RPG" should have official support for more intelligent, RP-oriented styles of play both in the rulebooks and adventures, not the constant focus on video game power-ups that plague 3e game design. None of the official adventures are particularly clever or exciting, just "back to the dungeon" meatgrinders any hack could write. They're not even good dungeon crawls like back in 1e. Just souped-up "extreme" carbon copies with a seeming target audience of 13 year old boys in mind; horrible art in most cases, too. Drives me nuts.

Dang, that paragraph sounded just like the argument used by every White Wolf fanboy who thinks that "Real Roleplayers" are more intelligent and mature than people who enjoy hack n' slash.


Our DM is normally great at winging it and brilliant at portraying NPCs (strangely enough, he absolutely sucks as a player when forced to focus on one character, lol), but his time is currently limited and despite years of advance knowledge that this is precisely the kind of adventure we hate, he's running it anyway, and inflicting in-game penalties on us for dragging our feet, using our religion against us, stripping us of everything and everyone we hold dear. Heavy-handed. It just seems like an extraordinarily bad fit (though annihilating those pesky drow with my cloudkill was great fun in an otherwise completely unmemorable session).

We can't just "go find another group or DM" as you suggest. The option is to play or not to play, to scrap the campaign or continue on. It sucks to throw in the towel at 11th level after all the work I've put in to building my PC, complete with detailed family history, resulting mental and emotional states, etc., slow building of personal and business relationships, etc. The DM just throws all that in the dumpster and expects us to rejoice in endless brain-dead slaughter? Maybe if I'd built my character as a combat monster with a double digit I.Q. I wouldn't complain. But the messages this adventure and DM is sending are:

1. "never worship any god because I will use your faith to railroad you. same goes for organizations; don't join them either"

2. "never bother to build intricate personal or fiscal relationships because they can be taken away at a moment's notice without warning."

3. "never do anything that doesn't focus on making you a combat monster with no ties to the world around you or your character will suck and you will die screaming in an endless dungeon crawl mega-meatgrinder." :mad:

I love my DM, but he should know better. Everytime I step in to substitute DM, he complains the adventures require too much thinking and he lets everyone else do all the brain work. Then he says he feels "inspired" and jumps back in to DM, and everything is awesome for awhile, couldn't be better, no complaints at all, but sooner or later, he makes a bad decision like dumping CoTSQ on our heads, and we wonder what the heck happened to our awesome campaign! *sigh* He should have come to me and asked me to fill in for awhile until his schedule cleared up.

That's where you're wrong. You can find another group or DM. Nothing is stopping you. You are acting like your DM is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to play.

You have a choice: You can refuse to participate in the CotSQ campaign, you can grit your teeth and take it like a man, or you can choose to play while whining and complaining about it every step of the way. You say that all the other players in your campaign hate the module as well? If everybody in the group abruptly quit, it might send a powerful message to your DM.

Unfortunately, it looks as though you have chosen to play, but you're going to complain about it every step of the way. Forgive me if I find it impossible to sympathize with a person who whines about their situation but refuses to change it.
 
Last edited:

Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top