How tough should a DM be?

[jasper]

UrathDm The chips fall where they may but you will remove or make the reset button (raises) very hard to get. Gee I would be frustrated too. I did the chips may fall as they may but raises were available if you had the money and occasionally a side adventure. But IMC the priest were just collecting money from the pc because the pcs were out doing the hard work of cleaning out the tomb of horrors, temple of Elemental evil, Bob’s bar, so the priest did not have to risk his skin to smite evil.

Now having 2 reserve characters is good. This tells people not to do the superhero thinking.

Now if you want to show you don't pull punches. One ancient green dragon swooping down and snatching the extra horse or mule is a good warning. The second one is if the players are stupid enough to attack the dragon (one of kids did) is to eat or nearly eat (the kid's father asked my not to kill his son's character) the pc. Note the pcs were around fifth level.

However if you make a big mistake correct and drive on. Ex. I forgot the creature the pc summoned used a touch attack not melee. Her character died. I ruled that she did not died but was knocked to negatives and stabilized. But did not rerun the combat.

So be tough but fudge a little. But never back off a total party kill. You be amazed how players can make a god call even using your dice.

 

[NekoAli]

There is also the point to remember that not all enemies will want the players dead, if they have them at their mercy, or manage to knock everyone out. Ransoming captives, taking slaves, letting the PCs live just to prove a point (I could have killed you, bu I chose not to... at this time) are all classics of the villian. Of course, animals and mindless monsters probably won't go into such fine details, but that's all part of playing the enemy. In a recent game, due to a lot of dice rolls going against the PCs, there was a TPK against a group of kobolds. Nobody died right off, but they were reduced to 0 hp or below. Later, they woke up in the kobold's 'larder'. After all, fresh meat is better than long dead, right? After healing up, they wound up having to take on the Iron Chef Kobold and his assistants, then sneaking out of the kobold lair unequipped. So there can be penalties to losing a fight that don't involve a six foot hole or a Ressurection spell.

 

[Desdichado]

I've never thought of D&D as a high lethality game unless the DM went out of his way to make it so.

I think of myself as a relatively brutal DM, but I'm nowhere near brutal to the point of "prepare three PCs every week." A lot of PC death makes it hard to run any kind of coherent campaign, especially if intrigue, continous story flow, or things like that are at all important to you.

At the same time, you probably certainly don't want players to think they can get away with anything and you'll bail them out somehow. My brutality, where it exists, as a DM, is primarily based on consequences of PC stupidity.

 

[der_kluge]

Take a page from the PirateCat school of DM'ing - Tough enough to make 8-year old girls cry, but soft enough to make them understand that they shouldn't take it personally.


This is an interesting topic to me. I had a conversation with a friend of mine and we were talking about this sort of thing. He commented that at one time he was more detached, and let the dice fall where they may. Turns out, the combat was more brutal, and harsh, and people were concerned that they could die at any time. I'm of the camp that believes that a really tough battle should leave everyone in the single digits, but that it (ideally) shouldn't kill anyone. He commented that at some point he'd gotten softer, and tended to err in favor of the PCs more often than not, and wasn't quite sure why or when he'd lost his "tough" touch.

I believe that if players see you rolling dice in the open, they're going to have a fear of dying more readily. As a player, I'm somewhat annoyed if I think the DM has vastly overestimated the party's abilities, and then furiously begins fudging rolls to avert a TPK. I have much more respect for the DM that can ascertain the party's power flawlessly, and can construct a perfectly challenging scenario without wiping us out.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I can't wait for tonights session. There is going to be a lot of save or die spells flying around and if the PC's roll crappy there will be a lot of deaths, possibly a TPK. Oh well, what can I do if they seem to average around 5 on thier d20 rolls?

 

[bret]

I think one of the most important things for the GM to be is consistent. If they are running a campaign where TPKs will just happen, make sure everyone is aware of this and be consistent in how you apply the rules so that people know not to take it personally.

That said, there will most definately be an adjustment period. I wouldn't have had people prepare 3 characters, but I do think it appropriate for you to ask for one backup character.

You also have to be very good at judging a fight, because if you screw up too badly the campaign is over. TPKs should be rare, and each time one happens there is a chance that people will not come back. You've got to have an interesting story along with the challenge --- why are things happening the way things are and how can we change that?

There is only one GM I've played under who could pull off this sort of campaign. It helped that one of his rules of GMing was "What is legal for the PCs is legal for the NPCs and vice versa." Still, the TPKs were a bit harsh.

At first, we always started off at 1st level. After a while, we finally convinced him it was no fun so he allowed us to start at 3rd or 5th level (since past characters had made it up that high). Each time the adventures were interesting, the stories were fun, but sooner or later we would have a bad day and suddenly the whole party was dead. Harsh when you've been playing that character for a long time.

Personally, i could never run a game that way. I think you can have a challenge without one bad gaming day (bad luck, bad strategy, etc) causing the whole party to die. On the other hand, some players really like that the GM isn't 'pulling punches', that everything they did was accomplished because of their actions and in spite of the luck of the dice.

Tastes vary. Try it, then after the third TPK talk to the group and see what they think.