How ubiquitous is the Superior Weapon feat?

[Aulirophile]

Rogues who don't go Daggermaster, all Strikers, all casters now that PHB3 is out should (+1 to hit is worth a feat for the accurate, I think all casters have an option for that), Runepriests should. That is more then 70% of classes I believe, so the answer: very.

Generally if you're going to get it, you get it at either 1st or 2nd level (you have proficiencies as a class) or 6th. You get Expertise at 8th at the latest (unless your group gives it out for free).

Or hey, you just want to be some guy swinging around a rapier and you ignore when you "should" get things from an "optimal" perspective.

 

[eriktheguy]

For a lot of builds superior weapons are like a feat tax. Most spell-casters can now get +1 hit with superior implements, which is a tax. Also spear, flail and sling builds offer a feat that gives an effective +1 to hit for a superior weapon.

Other builds don't benefit as much. Swords already have a +3 prof. Fighters can take a superior weapon for a bit of bonus damage if they use sword, axe, hammer, pick. They don't benefit as much as spear or flail users, but they benefit a bit.

Rogues get screwed. They have rapier as superior for shortsword, but nothing as superior version of dagger. Kukri is a brutal shortsword (although the way it is worded makes it only useful for rogues). Parrying dagger is a decent rogue off-hand, +1 AC for a feat, but it doesn't require a dagger build to use anyways.
Nope, dagger rogues are pretty much stuck with daggers.

On a side note, if you wanted a superior dagger that still has +3 prof AND +1 from your weapon trick, check out slings. With the dead-eye slinger feat and the right rogue weapon trick option, you get +3 prof, d6 damage, high crit, and +1 rogue weapon trick. (Edit: also works with superior crossbow on medium sized characters)
The downside? No melee and no daggermaster. The upside? Beats the hell out of shurikens!

I'm considering giving all the players in my party a free feat for superior weapons, I already use a houserule to get rid of the expertise feat tax (I apply a penalty to the monsters instead of a bonus to the characters).

 

[Dice4Hire]

Yes, Superior Weapon Proficicency usually gives you a +1 to hit, a higher dice type, or a property like brutal, and some give you two or three of those.

It depends on the weapon and your intended use of the weapon, but in many cases, it is a fine feat choice at 1st level.

 

[sev]

Or hey, you just want to be some guy swinging around a rapier and you ignore when you "should" get things from an "optimal" perspective.

Well, yeah, until I saw Herschel say "the vast majority" of melee weapon users take it, the only characters I saw with the Superior Weapon Training feat were the ones who required the superior weapon for flavor purposes, or for barbarians with the goal of over-the-top weapon-damage. On the other hand, Expertise is something I seriously consider taking, with every character I make. Did I mention that I hate missing?

I'd been starting to wonder if I was holding my characters back by not considering SWT more seriously. Reading this thread, it looks to me like the feat's more useful than I originally thought, but not quite as game-breaking as I feared.

 

[eriktheguy]

It certainly isn't game-breaking. It's just a tax for many builds; a feat that is strictly better than many others to the point where it's practically mandatory. If you are a spear user, then expertise is a feat for +1 to hit. If you are a flail user, expertise is a feat for +1 to hit. If you are an implement wielder, crossbow user, slinger... you get the picture.
This doesn't apply to sword builds of course, swords already get +1 to hit at the trade off of a lower damage die. This is not well balanced in my opinion, but that's another potential flamewar argument for another thread.

Edit: I guess what I'm going for is that 'superior weapon proficiency' shouldn't grant the player +1 to hit. It should do something else, something more balanced, like increased damage die, high crit, brutal, off hand... These things appeal enough to encourage the players that like the style, without making the feat so good that its use becomes ubiquitous.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Two handed sword users and melee strikers (including fighters and excluding rogues and monks) all get a lot out of it (both Falchion and Greatsword being weaker than they should be). Anyone else, not so much although there's an edge case for drow long knives (especially for e.g. the artificer that tries to mix melee and thrown). There used to be one for double weapons for tempest fighters as they were balanced for rangers not fighters - errata fixed that.

 

[Mengu]

Well, even rogues can benefit from superior crossbow, rapier, or bastard sword, depending on the build. For a class that gets powers with lots of [W]'s, rolling d10's is quite good.

For defender classes it might not be an immediate priority. And some races give you two for one superior/focus, Githzerai being the craziest example.

I don't think all weapon characters need it, or want it, especially at first level. Toughness is one of the best first level feats for a defender.

And I don't think it's a tax. You have feats to make your character better. What else are you going to do with them? It's just one of many damage upgrade feats (and it's a good, straight forward one). But sometimes you want different things out of the superior weapon, such as +3 proficiency with reach, heavy thrown heavy blade, defensive weapon, etc.

And depending on how feat starved you are, sometimes spending a magic item slot for the damage upgrade (like say a Mage's Fullblade) is also an option.

 

[Joshua Randall]

I'd like a superior dagger, counting as a dagger, that rolled d6s.

This is mostly because I really dislike rolling d4s.

Me too!

At a con, I found some dice shaped like d8s but numbered 1-4 twice (so they're really d4s). I now use those for my dagger-wielding characters, and it's soooo much nicer than rolling actual d4s.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I'm using a D12 displaying 1-4 three times. Nicer even than a d8.

 

[the Jester]

Having run 4e since slightly before it came out, including two regular campaigns with 6-8 players in them and lots of retraining, I've seen SWP exactly once.