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How would you advance Class, Race, and Themes?
- Thread starter Jack7
- Start date
Yora
Legend
I think races should not advance in any way. Having talent or being born with a favorable body for your chosen activity helps, but in the end it's training that decides everything. What you've been born with becomes increasingly less important as you become more experienced, so it can be just the same with races in D&D
I hear what you're saying, and you're opinion is perfectly valid, but I look at it a different way. When I get to level 15, I want to feel like a level 15 Dwarf FIghter Noble, not like a level 15 Fighter who chose Dwarf and Noble just for some quick bonuses. In other words, I want the 3 parts to be inseparable when the legends are made. He was the greatest of Dwarves, the deadliest of Fighters and the most sublime of the Nobility.
Yora
Legend
I think that is partly done by the goal of reducing a bloat of huge numbers.
If your 18th level character has a +10 bonus to something instead of a +35 bonus, then the +3 bonus from your race still matters.
But the problem I see is that I don't know what types of abilities races could be given that actually do matter more, or as much as experience. Dwarves see in the dark, that's always great. But after that, I don't know.
If your 18th level character has a +10 bonus to something instead of a +35 bonus, then the +3 bonus from your race still matters.
But the problem I see is that I don't know what types of abilities races could be given that actually do matter more, or as much as experience. Dwarves see in the dark, that's always great. But after that, I don't know.
What Racial Abilities would you like to see?
[EDIT] Heh. heh. Oops. This was intended to be its own thread...not posted here.
Made the forked thread now.
Sorry.
If a mod would care to delete this post, that's fine with me.[/EDIT]
What would you count/want to see as Race Abilities/Bonuses? How flavor/fluff specific, or not, would you want them?
Should dwarf abilities be stone-related or elf abilties woods-related, for example?
How many (if any) of the "traditional" racial abilities be inculded: dark-/infra-/low-light vision, size bonuses to AC against large creatures, +1 to use bows and swords, etc. ?
I'm curious what people are thinking are "broad" or "common" enough to warrant a race's initial abilities should be. Which are capable of being increased over level (whether you gain them at 1st level or later)? Which are totally "separate" or "specialized" abilities that could optionally be picked later in the character's development?
What's (or should be considered) genetic? i.e. Is automatic to the race and can't be changed or increased...it's just something that any "X" has.
I'm thinking there could be some things like this (just examples here, not exhaustive lists):
Dwarves
-Stonecraft: know distance and direction below ground (automatic).
Be able to discern construction and/or detect stonework secret doors and/or stonework traps with, I dunno, say...50% accuracy (at 1st level)..which gets bumped +5% every other or every 3rd level...or must be chosen to be bumped?
-Darkvision out to 60'. Automatic. Increase by 10' for each additional racial "bump" selected.
-Bonus to AC (and/or to hit and/or damage) when fighting Ogres, Trolls and Giantkind. Must be chosen/gained-not automatic. Bonus +1 when first taken and increases +1 (to a max of +4) for each additional "bump" chosen as you increase in level.
-Similar bonus to above but applied to Orcs.
-Appraisal skill as related to items of metal, gemstones and weaponry/armor. Automatic at 30% at 1st level. Increase by 10% for each "bump" chosen.
-+1 Reaction adjustment to dealings with Dwarves. Additonal +1 (to a max of +4) for each time selected.
Now, this could be presented in numerous ways: you get +1 "Racial rank" to place as you like each level. Or every other or every third. Or +however many points you have as bonus to your primary ability (which then starts blurring Race with Class, but it's a possibility).
For the purposes of this example, let's say 1 "Race rank" for every level above 1st:
So a 10th level dwarf, of any class with any theme could conceivably have:
-Darkvision
-Stonecraft skills at 75% (5 "ranks/bumps" chosen as he increased level)
-+2 to his AC against Ogres,Trolls and Giantkind.
-+1 to his "to hit" and damage rolls against Orcs.
-+1 to his interactions with other Dwarves.
For Elves, I'd go with options lke the following:
-Low light vision out to 60'. Scales/additional 10' per added rank.
-A, say, 50% resistance to enchantment magics. Increases by 5% per added rank. (So, in theory, a 10th level elf might be entirely immune to enchantment spells)
-bonus to bow use +1 per rank, to max of +4.
-bonuses (AC or attack) against Orcs and Goblinoids
-Woodcraft skills (hunting, foraging, detection of naturally made traps-pits, snares, etc.)
-Reaction adjustments/bonuses for dealings with any race (each race must be chosen separately). So an Elf could conceivably be +3 with other elves, +2 gnomes, +1 humans, etc. Or specify it to being elves only or Elves & Fey or Sylvan creatures only, etc.
You get the idea?
How about Gnomes, Halflings, Dragonborn, race(s) of your choice?...and/or what you'd think/like to see for elves and dwarves too.
--SD
[EDIT] Heh. heh. Oops. This was intended to be its own thread...not posted here.
Made the forked thread now.
Sorry.
If a mod would care to delete this post, that's fine with me.[/EDIT]
What would you count/want to see as Race Abilities/Bonuses? How flavor/fluff specific, or not, would you want them?
Should dwarf abilities be stone-related or elf abilties woods-related, for example?
How many (if any) of the "traditional" racial abilities be inculded: dark-/infra-/low-light vision, size bonuses to AC against large creatures, +1 to use bows and swords, etc. ?
I'm curious what people are thinking are "broad" or "common" enough to warrant a race's initial abilities should be. Which are capable of being increased over level (whether you gain them at 1st level or later)? Which are totally "separate" or "specialized" abilities that could optionally be picked later in the character's development?
What's (or should be considered) genetic? i.e. Is automatic to the race and can't be changed or increased...it's just something that any "X" has.
I'm thinking there could be some things like this (just examples here, not exhaustive lists):
Dwarves
-Stonecraft: know distance and direction below ground (automatic).
Be able to discern construction and/or detect stonework secret doors and/or stonework traps with, I dunno, say...50% accuracy (at 1st level)..which gets bumped +5% every other or every 3rd level...or must be chosen to be bumped?
-Darkvision out to 60'. Automatic. Increase by 10' for each additional racial "bump" selected.
-Bonus to AC (and/or to hit and/or damage) when fighting Ogres, Trolls and Giantkind. Must be chosen/gained-not automatic. Bonus +1 when first taken and increases +1 (to a max of +4) for each additional "bump" chosen as you increase in level.
-Similar bonus to above but applied to Orcs.
-Appraisal skill as related to items of metal, gemstones and weaponry/armor. Automatic at 30% at 1st level. Increase by 10% for each "bump" chosen.
-+1 Reaction adjustment to dealings with Dwarves. Additonal +1 (to a max of +4) for each time selected.
Now, this could be presented in numerous ways: you get +1 "Racial rank" to place as you like each level. Or every other or every third. Or +however many points you have as bonus to your primary ability (which then starts blurring Race with Class, but it's a possibility).
For the purposes of this example, let's say 1 "Race rank" for every level above 1st:
So a 10th level dwarf, of any class with any theme could conceivably have:
-Darkvision
-Stonecraft skills at 75% (5 "ranks/bumps" chosen as he increased level)
-+2 to his AC against Ogres,Trolls and Giantkind.
-+1 to his "to hit" and damage rolls against Orcs.
-+1 to his interactions with other Dwarves.
For Elves, I'd go with options lke the following:
-Low light vision out to 60'. Scales/additional 10' per added rank.
-A, say, 50% resistance to enchantment magics. Increases by 5% per added rank. (So, in theory, a 10th level elf might be entirely immune to enchantment spells)
-bonus to bow use +1 per rank, to max of +4.
-bonuses (AC or attack) against Orcs and Goblinoids
-Woodcraft skills (hunting, foraging, detection of naturally made traps-pits, snares, etc.)
-Reaction adjustments/bonuses for dealings with any race (each race must be chosen separately). So an Elf could conceivably be +3 with other elves, +2 gnomes, +1 humans, etc. Or specify it to being elves only or Elves & Fey or Sylvan creatures only, etc.
You get the idea?
How about Gnomes, Halflings, Dragonborn, race(s) of your choice?...and/or what you'd think/like to see for elves and dwarves too.
--SD
Last edited:
Goblins are the enemies of Dwarves, not Orcs. Also the percentage stuff has to change to skill bonuses, but with open-ended skills the bonuses can be worded how you like. Other than that, spot on.
I might even have a selectable bump for a selection of attacks, with different choices to suit most any character, martial, sneaky, arcane, divine. Perhaps a movement ability for most races? The Dwarves have had the ability to not be slowed in heavy armor and to resist forced movement.
You definitely have the right of it. You can do all kinds of things with race and still get all your stuff from class and theme. You don't have to gimp one to advance another, and they don't have to step on each other's toes, as you've shown.
I might even have a selectable bump for a selection of attacks, with different choices to suit most any character, martial, sneaky, arcane, divine. Perhaps a movement ability for most races? The Dwarves have had the ability to not be slowed in heavy armor and to resist forced movement.
You definitely have the right of it. You can do all kinds of things with race and still get all your stuff from class and theme. You don't have to gimp one to advance another, and they don't have to step on each other's toes, as you've shown.
Blackwarder
Adventurer
I'm not sure if I want race and theme to get upgraded fo lacking a better word) with levels, especially if all three of them (class, race and theme) compete for the same resource pool.
The way I see it, themes and races should add more to the character than just combat bonuses, the dwarves stone cutting ability or the elves automatic chance to detect secret doors is a good example of good benefits, I also like the idea of them adding stuff along the way as your character advance, but I would rather not have it a linear advancement, or putting it in another way, if I'm using themes and races special abilities modules they better be more flashed out with more options than the simple linear progression.
Linear progression is better for the core rules but not for the modules.
Warder
The way I see it, themes and races should add more to the character than just combat bonuses, the dwarves stone cutting ability or the elves automatic chance to detect secret doors is a good example of good benefits, I also like the idea of them adding stuff along the way as your character advance, but I would rather not have it a linear advancement, or putting it in another way, if I'm using themes and races special abilities modules they better be more flashed out with more options than the simple linear progression.
Linear progression is better for the core rules but not for the modules.
Warder
vagabundo
Adventurer
I'd much prefer having a Character level and talent trees (call them feats if you like). You get access to the race, class and theme talent trees that you pick and get one every level* or every second* character level. If you change class or theme (or race lol, vampire could be a "rare" race I suppose) you get access to the new talent tree and lose access to the old ones.
You could also have general feats (talents) that you could access when your not getting one of your choice feats.
*I'd support less talents/feats per level if that means more iconic and powerful ones.
You could also have general feats (talents) that you could access when your not getting one of your choice feats.
*I'd support less talents/feats per level if that means more iconic and powerful ones.
Incenjucar
Legend
Taking the 4E model, your average character could have a total of nine abilities. 3 at-will abilities, 3 encounter abilities, and 3 daily abilities (or something that equals that value in some way). At minimum, you'd need one at-will, one encounter, and only daily from your class, but you would have the option of having up to one of each from your race or theme, but you could go for any mix in between (Example: 3 class at-wills, 2 class encounters, 1 class daily, 1 race encounter, 1 race daily, 1 theme daily).
avin
First Post
1E and 2E fans want a simpler game, I guess, 3E and 4E maybe will enjoy more options.
As far as we know there will be modules... one for that guy who want to quick create a level 9 character and join a party on the fly and one for that guy who wants to explore every options available, and custom his character.
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