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how would you build this char?


First Post
You could always just go for a simple sorcerer.. With a decent cocktail of buffs they can stand in melee well enough up till mid levels. (I'm currently playing a level 7 Aasimar Ashemi [race from AEG Mercenaries book] sorcerer who does just that)

At high levels the lack of hp, and the change in the nature of AC (it seems to get further outstripped by THAC the higher the level) makes this concept rather suicidal.

For that reason I'm discussing with my DM the possibility of more powerful stat and AC buffs at higher spell levels to allow him to try and remain surviveable toe to toe.

The other downside to this character is that dispels and antimagic are deathtraps, but then everyone has their weaknesses :)

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First Post
thanks for the suggestion- but i don't think that can work. making a sorc would mean I would need high cha, con, and dex.

My char tends towards melee (if at all) and so- spells would not be main focus- but the sword. D8s as HP, I can live with- but D4s? that is suicidal for the guy I am building. Especially if he wants to go toe to toe with any kind of fighter...

And I am hoping to use a lot of supernatural abilities and not so much on spells. That is why I am not planning on asking for that many buff spells- but rather PrCs that will grant cool or useful super/ extra abilities. A Spellsword is super (i think) and so cannot be jakked by Antimagic field.

I saw a beefed out fighter/ sorc a while back that caught my attention. But fighter/ cleric would be a bettre fit for what I am doing. the HP loss and weird MC is just too much for me right now.... maybe when I get to know the system much better- or if I can string together a good progression with the two...

Another option was Psy warrior- antimagic can't really affect them at all... :D


Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
I know this is going to seem like a very odd suggestion, but have you considered the Monte Cook alternative Bard, found in the Book of Eldritch Might II?

The Alt. Bard can wear armor heavier than light armor. They get proficiency with at least one good martial weapon. They cast spells that are both charm and melee related, including summoning up pretty powerful melee weapons for the appropriate situation. They use Charisma for virtually all their abilities (Diplomacy, Perform, and Spells). And they have a pretty interesting role playing feel to them.

Of course, they are not divine casters, but arcane ones. And while they can worship a god (and in particular an Alt. Bard with one level of Cleric worshipping the new god in that book, Jode, and with the new domain in that book, music, will be mighty powerful), that isn't where their power comes from.

Just a thought, if you want to take your character in an interesting direction.


First Post
actually- that is the exact idea I was looking for- but could not get it pinpointed... thnaks.

pretty good spells, lots of skills and predominantly charm and persuasion spells.

decent HP, and armor.


any other suggestion on classes and PrC are very appreciated...



First Post
Avoid combat but be able to fight when necessary

It sounds, based on the personality profile you described, that you are looking for a character that will avoid combat when possible but will fight well and honorably when combat is unavoidable. You might want to think about Paladin, as the personality you are describing could easily fit the lawful good and you would end up with someone who could fight and cast a few spells.

If you decide to go cleric, I would definetly choose the strength domain both for the granted power and the spells. From the PHB domains I would recommend protection as the second domain. Protection spells have the benefit of making you better in combat (because you end up standing longer) while avoiding the more attack based spells. If you are able to use it, the Mysticism domain from the KoK PG would be even better.

Feat wise, I would focus on your goal of "avoiding combat". Buff and protection spells will make you a pretty effective combatant but taking feats such as Skill Focus: Diplomacy and Spell Focus: Enchantment can help with the non-combat stuff. Arcane Prodigy can be a better feat for a cleric than Spell Focus because their spells tend to flow across a variety of schools. With Arcane Prodigy, you will get +1 DC to all spells with a save instead of +2 DC to a particular school.

If you want to take a couple of levels in an arcane class, I would recommend the Spellsinger from KoK PG. The spellsinger requires only verbal components to cast spells so you would have no armor check penalty and with the feat "silent spell" could cast spells as an act of will. Even one level is spellsinger would give you access to charm person, which can be an incredible tool for avoiding a fight. (The downside of the spellsinger is that you have a limited "spells known" progression like a sorcerer but your "spells per day" are the same as a wizards.)

Other good feats for you might include improved initiative (clerics tend to have low dex and improved initiative can help you get off a charm person or hold person, preventing combat before it even starts). If you don't want to focus on undead bashing, you might consider some of the feats from Defenders of the Faith or KOK PG that give you alternative ways to channel positive energy. Beyond this, it becomes a matter of taste. If you want to up your combat ability a bit, take weapon focus. If you want to correct some of your weak points, take lightning reflexes. If you want to emphasize your strong points, take Iron Will (a cleric with Iron Will and a decent wisdom ends up with a truly indomitable will).

Stat wise, with the character personality you described, I would arrange stats in this order (highest to lowest), wisdom, charisma, strength, con, intelligence, dexterity. Clerics get crappy skill points but good armor which is why I feel intelligence is more important than dexterity.


Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
How about a paladin/psion (telepath)? Two levels of paladin, the rest psion. With a high Con, you should have enough HPs in a fight, and your charm/suggestion abilities, high Cha, and Diplomacy you should be able to avoid most any battle.


Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
If the idea of the Alt. Bard interests you, that same book also details two prestige classes that might be up your alley as well:

Diplomancer: Skilled at working with others, negotiating with and influencing people, diplomancers are spellcasters who specialize in magic keyed to relations and enchantments. Far less likely to hurl fireballs and create walls of force,a diplomancer solves problems and overcomes foes through use of subtle charms and other enchantments. She excels at conversational finesse, using magic to make herself even more trustworthy, interesting and compelling…Diplomancers often avoid less subtle - brash, even - evokers and spellcasters who use overt magical force. They see theirs as a sophisticated and refined art, requiring a deft touch and as much cunning as raw power.

[Note: This would be a good prestige class if you wanted to emphasize more of your charm / persuasive abilities, after builing up your combat abilities with the earlier Bard levels.]

Knight of the Cord: The sound and the fury, the music of battle, and the songs of war—these elements make up the life of a knight of the chord. The knights of the chord are a group that uses the magic of music to aid them in their fighting skills. It is a loosely organized order of knighthood, as each member remains a free spirit and highly individualistic. The code of the order is simple: Defend the downtrodden, and preserve freedom above all else...Normally, knights of the chord are bards, or at least have some bard levels...As they rarely recognize local authorities, magistrates and law enforcers do not exactly welcome their presence. However, the common folk look upon them as champions and defenders.

[Note: This would be a good prestige class if you wanted to emphasize more of your combat abilities, after building up your charm / persuasive abilities with the earlier Bard levels.]

Both of these prestige classes do grant you additional Bard spells, but reduce that progression to about every other level.
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Sniper o' the Shrouds
Possibly cleric with protection and healing, going toward a Contemplative prestige class. This doesn't sound like a war cleric. Those are generally not subtle.


Sage of the Scarred Lands
Zigmutt said:
Where does Iron (Mithril ) Knight come from? I read about it here last week- and i remember it coming from an obscure (to me) book.

Sorry Zigmutt
Mithril Knight is Mithril: City of the Golem. Mithril and Iron knight are two of four Swords of Corean, mostly Coreanic Paladins but some clerics as well. Mithril is more of a PREMIER order but mostly for paladins since one of the requirements is smite evil as a spell like ability.

Iron Knight is in the SLCS:Ghelspad.

Zigmutt said:
Can you give me a run down (brief summary or descr) of the iron knight so that I can get an idea of what I am getting into...

Sure. Iron knights are the forgers, weapons smiths and seige masters. They are great craftsmen as well as very capable fighter.

Zigmutt said:
What is the marrowsword? and where does it come from? What book has the best spell list for clerics? and what bok is Sacred defender from? sorry- but I have not read through all my books- or even familiarized myself. Just looked over them when I bought them. too much to go through...
Why don't you like spellsword?

I just don't care much for storing spells in swords. Marrowsword is a weapon used by the Blood Witch to gain certain feats using blood of various PHB races. Both it AND the Sacred Defender Miracle feat are in R&R2.
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First Post
Thanks all-

I picked up BoEM 2 last night and spent the night reading through it. I was really impressed at how strong the bard became- but also saddened that i had to get the BoEM also in order to fully use the feat and spells section. - not a big deal tho.

From the sound of things- I think I will pick up Scarred lands CS and KoK also- but we will see... I am kinda strapped for cash right now.

I just don't care much for storing spells in swords. Marrowsword is a weapon used by the Blood Witch to gain certain feats using blood of various PHB races.
I don't neither- especially the way my DM forces me to use it (you store a spell on your sword. the next time you swing it, the spell discharges.- not having to activate the sword)-

Plus- i like super abilities better (super or extra abilities that embue powers onto the weapon- and if someone else tries to use it- it is a normal weapon- Rokugan- but i think there are other places also...

Paladin sounds good too. I will look into it- Bards and Paladins are two classes that I have never thought of playing- for stereotypical reasons...

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