OSR How Would You Convert WHFRPG to OSR?
Michael Linke
Adventurer
I don't believe any iteration of D&D or its clones is compatible with the theme of WFRP. WFRP 2e is a little easier to learn than WFRP 1e, but still very similar to the original. The cleric and mage are really innapropriate for starting characters in a WFRP setting, and the distinciton between starting as a Camp Follower, Vagabond, Peasant or Smuggler as opposed to just "thief" is really significant to the setting and gameplay. Boiling players down to the D&D character classes, and assuming D&D style normalization of clerics and magic-users, is really counter to the theme.
Ralif Redhammer
Legend
One thing I just thought about is using the sidekick class rules in Tasha's to simulate the career system of Warhammer Fantasy. You could easily create a career path out of those, having everyone start off as one of the three sidekick classes.
Michael Linke
Adventurer
Sidekicks would help simulate the weakness of WFRP characters. If you do this, you should also create profession based equipment packages rather than let people buy their gear. A big part of WFRP is that a Camp Follower starts with the stuff a Camp Follower would own. She doesn't get to buy general purpose adventuring gear at the start, though she's free to do so later once the player takes over and invests her with agency.
I'm reading through the 4e book again to try to convince myself "maybe it's not as difficult as I remember."
Nope. It's bad.
Here are things that don't work for me in the system.
1) Fate/Fortune; Resolve/Resilience
Having a pair of similar sounding names for characteristics that do very similar things. It's bloated and unnecessary.
2) Success Levels
Roll then subtract your roll from your ability score, round up, get a number and compare to a chart to see how many successes you've earned. There must have been a better way to do this.
3) Advancements, Spending XP
You can increase these certain things, but only at certain points, and only to a certain degree, then you need to "complete" that class's path, pay more XP to start another class. WTH?
4) Advantage/Disadvantage, Easy/Challenging/Hard rolls
You can roll two percentage dice and take the better result if you have advantage (or worse if you have disadvantage). Or you can get a bonus/penalty to the roll depending on circumstances? Why in the name of hell do you have two mechanics to do the same thing?
5) Bonuses after Successful Checks
You have to keep track of all your successes in a row to get bonuses to future die rolls. There's plenty to keep up with in a combat. As a GM, am I supposed to also track this for all enemies? Bad mechanic.
Nope. It's bad.
Here are things that don't work for me in the system.
1) Fate/Fortune; Resolve/Resilience
Having a pair of similar sounding names for characteristics that do very similar things. It's bloated and unnecessary.
2) Success Levels
Roll then subtract your roll from your ability score, round up, get a number and compare to a chart to see how many successes you've earned. There must have been a better way to do this.
3) Advancements, Spending XP
You can increase these certain things, but only at certain points, and only to a certain degree, then you need to "complete" that class's path, pay more XP to start another class. WTH?
4) Advantage/Disadvantage, Easy/Challenging/Hard rolls
You can roll two percentage dice and take the better result if you have advantage (or worse if you have disadvantage). Or you can get a bonus/penalty to the roll depending on circumstances? Why in the name of hell do you have two mechanics to do the same thing?
5) Bonuses after Successful Checks
You have to keep track of all your successes in a row to get bonuses to future die rolls. There's plenty to keep up with in a combat. As a GM, am I supposed to also track this for all enemies? Bad mechanic.
Michael Linke
Adventurer
Fate/Fortune: Fate is rarer and more powerful than fortune.
Success Levels: If you just treat the value on the 10s die as your success level, you get basically the same end result, with a lot less math. I've always done it that way.
Advancement: They're not classes and shouldn't be expected to resemble D&D classes or D&D advancement in any way. The game assumes that if your Profession is "Rat Catcher", you're a Rat Catcher first, and an "adventurer" second, so most of your skill increases are still informed by what your actual day job is, not the weekend-warrior adventures you occasionally embark on.
Everything else you commented on is new in 4th edition, and not present in the first two editions, which were recommended since they're already OSR friendly. 2nd edition WFRP is basically a simplified version of 1st, and i'd start there if you want something easy to teach/play.
Michael Linke
Adventurer
Not relevant to OSR, but
This may have been borrowed from the recent Warhammer miniatures rulesets that were in play at the time. In 40k and AoS, there's a hard rule that you can only re-roll a roll once. The fastest way to make a bonus (or penalty) that can't stack is to make it a re-roll. +1s/-1s are generally stackable and adding in a few sneaky "doesn't stack" bonuses would increase confusion. When a rule gives a bonus that can't stack, it gives a reroll instead. Since the publication of WFRP 4e, the bonus and re-roll rules have changed yet again in 40k 9th edition, and will probably follow suit when AoS gets updated, so the rule will then no longer match what happens in the strategy game.
This may have been borrowed from the recent Warhammer miniatures rulesets that were in play at the time. In 40k and AoS, there's a hard rule that you can only re-roll a roll once. The fastest way to make a bonus (or penalty) that can't stack is to make it a re-roll. +1s/-1s are generally stackable and adding in a few sneaky "doesn't stack" bonuses would increase confusion. When a rule gives a bonus that can't stack, it gives a reroll instead. Since the publication of WFRP 4e, the bonus and re-roll rules have changed yet again in 40k 9th edition, and will probably follow suit when AoS gets updated, so the rule will then no longer match what happens in the strategy game.
Jaeger
That someone better
IMHO, you can get close enough for government work by cutting and pasting what you think is best for you from previous efforts:
Have a good look at those and see what you can port over that works best.
The Important thing to maintain the WH feel is to not have hit points that increase by level.
Going to a Fixed Hit point total changes "D&D" a lot. And leaving in the hit point level inflation is the main reason d20 games got a rep for not fitting the genre's they were churned out for.
But if you fix the HP at a low amount you can get a very gritty feel to the game.
TheSword
Legend
I think you’ve got a few of these ideas a bit screwy. They aren’t quite as you describe them, though I can see how a casual reading could lead to them.
You really only use Fortune (rerolling tests) and Resolve (ending conditions). One being luck the other bad-assness. Fate and Resilience are used a couple of times in a campaign to stop you dying or choose the outcome of a die roll. But spending them permanently reduces your fortune and resolve. Believe me, your player will be able to keep track of Fate points when they literally save their life.
As has been said. You subtract the tens die from you stat’s tens figure. You literally compare two single digit number to work our Success Level. To my knowledge there are no charts to reference, except for unusual skills like Leadership say.
The XP system is very elegant, constant development in an extremely granular organic way. The career system works to control this by specifying key skills and stats you can improve. You don’t have to complete a career - it just uses less XP if you do one career at a time (it doesn’t save that much) you can also spend XP outside the career of your GM agrees it makes sense. There’s no limit to how far you can develop your careers skills and allowed stats. You could spend your entire campaign as a wizards apprentice if that’s what you wanted.
Not sure where you’re getting the reroll s from. That’s not how advantage works in 4e. It’s an accruing bonus you get in combat to represent the momentum of the fight and to speed things up.
It sounds like you’re conflating this with test difficulty which is generally +0 in combat or +20 outside the pressure of combat unless there are particularly difficult circumstances.
This is only for advantage - which players would normally track themselves. Also dramatic tests where success could take several rounds, like picking a lock. Most tests I see are simple or opposed just like in 5e.
I highly recommend the Ratcatchers Guild on Discord. You can find the link on their Facebook page. They cover all editions of WFRP and generally answer questions within a few minutes of posting. You can also search for pretty much any rules query you have. It will be in there!
Either way good luck. I’ve ran Shadows over Bogenhafen in Pathfinder and 5e. Just cut out magic from PCs and it’s not much different to running in Middle Earth. If you want a simple version of 5e then use Cubicle 7’s AIME. It will get you through.
TheSword
Legend
The biggest issue you’ll find is that D&D class abilities are largely combat related. Whereas combat is rare and extremely dramatic in WFRP.
Unless PCs are total murder-hobo-psychopaths there are only 3 ‘normal’ fights in Shadows over Bogenhafen. Two of these are with single creatures. There are lots of options for other combat if things go wrong but largely against watchmen or a guard and his dog.
Unless PCs are total murder-hobo-psychopaths there are only 3 ‘normal’ fights in Shadows over Bogenhafen. Two of these are with single creatures. There are lots of options for other combat if things go wrong but largely against watchmen or a guard and his dog.
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