Sidekicks would help simulate the weakness of WFRP characters. If you do this, you should also create profession based equipment packages rather than let people buy their gear. A big part of WFRP is that a Camp Follower starts with the stuff a Camp Follower would own. She doesn't get to buy general purpose adventuring gear at the start, though she's free to do so later once the player takes over and invests her with agency.One thing I just thought about is using the sidekick class rules in Tasha's to simulate the career system of Warhammer Fantasy. You could easily create a career path out of those, having everyone start off as one of the three sidekick classes.
Fate/Fortune: Fate is rarer and more powerful than fortune.I'm reading through the 4e book again to try to convince myself "maybe it's not as difficult as I remember."
Nope. It's bad.
Here are things that don't work for me in the system.
1) Fate/Fortune; Resolve/Resilience
Having a pair of similar sounding names for characteristics that do very similar things. It's bloated and unnecessary.
2) Success Levels
Roll then subtract your roll from your ability score, round up, get a number and compare to a chart to see how many successes you've earned. There must have been a better way to do this.
3) Advancements, Spending XP
You can increase these certain things, but only at certain points, and only to a certain degree, then you need to "complete" that class's path, pay more XP to start another class. WTH?
4) Advantage/Disadvantage, Easy/Challenging/Hard rolls
You can roll two percentage dice and take the better result if you have advantage (or worse if you have disadvantage). Or you can get a bonus/penalty to the roll depending on circumstances? Why in the name of hell do you have two mechanics to do the same thing?
5) Bonuses after Successful Checks
You have to keep track of all your successes in a row to get bonuses to future die rolls. There's plenty to keep up with in a combat. As a GM, am I supposed to also track this for all enemies? Bad mechanic.
4) Advantage/Disadvantage, Easy/Challenging/Hard rolls
You can roll two percentage dice and take the better result if you have advantage (or worse if you have disadvantage). Or you can get a bonus/penalty to the roll depending on circumstances? Why in the name of hell do you have two mechanics to do the same thing?
My groups are moving more and more to OSR systems and away from trying out "new" systems. Not to mention we're also playing on VTT that aren't ideal for teaching new systems and implementing ruleset idiosyncrasies. A goal I've had for a few decades is to run Warhammer Fantasy's well-regarded "Enemy Within" campaign, and I've started collecting the 4e WHFRPG's revised books. Only problem is, I don't see us being able to play it in that system. (I GMed a handful of sessions using that ruleset before moving players and the pandemic broke up the group.)
What would be some easy to implement rules changes - if any - to give OSR systems a Warhammer feel? My gut-reaction is that we limit non-human PCs to reflect a more humanocentric world, maybe allow being reduced to 0 HP having a critical injury chart instead of instant death, put in some kind of roll mechanic for magic. I'm thinking that AC can maybe work the same way, even though it wouldn't be as DR - it just makes a low roll be a non-hit.
What do experienced WHFRPG and OSR GMs think?
Small But Vicious Dog and Ten Dead Rats are both B/X D&D retroclones with some tweaks to make them more Warhammery. There's very little the players would need to learn.
I'm reading through the 4e book again to try to convince myself "maybe it's not as difficult as I remember."
Nope. It's bad.
Here are things that don't work for me in the system.
1) Fate/Fortune; Resolve/Resilience
Having a pair of similar sounding names for characteristics that do very similar things. It's bloated and unnecessary.
As has been said. You subtract the tens die from you stat’s tens figure. You literally compare two single digit number to work our Success Level. To my knowledge there are no charts to reference, except for unusual skills like Leadership say.2) Success Levels
Roll then subtract your roll from your ability score, round up, get a number and compare to a chart to see how many successes you've earned. There must have been a better way to do this.
The XP system is very elegant, constant development in an extremely granular organic way. The career system works to control this by specifying key skills and stats you can improve. You don’t have to complete a career - it just uses less XP if you do one career at a time (it doesn’t save that much) you can also spend XP outside the career of your GM agrees it makes sense. There’s no limit to how far you can develop your careers skills and allowed stats. You could spend your entire campaign as a wizards apprentice if that’s what you wanted.3) Advancements, Spending XP
You can increase these certain things, but only at certain points, and only to a certain degree, then you need to "complete" that class's path, pay more XP to start another class. WTH?
4) Advantage/Disadvantage, Easy/Challenging/Hard rolls
You can roll two percentage dice and take the better result if you have advantage (or worse if you have disadvantage). Or you can get a bonus/penalty to the roll depending on circumstances? Why in the name of hell do you have two mechanics to do the same thing?
This is only for advantage - which players would normally track themselves. Also dramatic tests where success could take several rounds, like picking a lock. Most tests I see are simple or opposed just like in 5e.5) Bonuses after Successful Checks
You have to keep track of all your successes in a row to get bonuses to future die rolls. There's plenty to keep up with in a combat. As a GM, am I supposed to also track this for all enemies? Bad mechanic.
p 152 "The Outcomes Table" which details 8 different degrees of success or failure.To my knowledge there are no charts to reference, except for unusual skills like Leadership say.
It is calculated after every opposed roll. Which is basically every attack roll in every combat, constantly in flux based on if you failed to gain advantage that round, get outnumbered, spend it to disengage, have skills or talents that change it, and probably a host of other situations. Do I track this for enemies? Along with wounds, armor ratings, toughness modifiers, lingering injuries, etc.? I don't want to have to keep a spreadsheet to keep up with this stuff.This is only for advantage - which players would normally track themselves.
Ah yeah, you don’t really check a table. That just tells you that the amount of success or failure can flexibly affect the outcome... if you want. Normally SLs are self evident.p 152 "The Outcomes Table" which details 8 different degrees of success or failure.
It is calculated after every opposed roll. Which is basically every attack roll in every combat, constantly in flux based on if you failed to gain advantage that round, get outnumbered, spend it to disengage, have skills or talents that change it, and probably a host of other situations. Do I track this for enemies? Along with wounds, armor ratings, toughness modifiers, lingering injuries, etc.? I don't want to have to keep a spreadsheet to keep up with this stuff.
All of this is why we never recommended 4th edition in the first place. 1st and 2nd edition don't need to be adapted for OSR, because they're already OSR.p 152 "The Outcomes Table" which details 8 different degrees of success or failure.
It is calculated after every opposed roll. Which is basically every attack roll in every combat, constantly in flux based on if you failed to gain advantage that round, get outnumbered, spend it to disengage, have skills or talents that change it, and probably a host of other situations. Do I track this for enemies? Along with wounds, armor ratings, toughness modifiers, lingering injuries, etc.? I don't want to have to keep a spreadsheet to keep up with this stuff.
My groups are moving more and more to OSR systems and away from trying out "new" systems. Not to mention we're also playing on VTT that aren't ideal for teaching new systems and implementing ruleset idiosyncrasies. A goal I've had for a few decades is to run Warhammer Fantasy's well-regarded "Enemy Within" campaign, and I've started collecting the 4e WHFRPG's revised books. Only problem is, I don't see us being able to play it in that system. (I GMed a handful of sessions using that ruleset before moving players and the pandemic broke up the group.)
What would be some easy to implement rules changes - if any - to give OSR systems a Warhammer feel? My gut-reaction is that we limit non-human PCs to reflect a more humanocentric world, maybe allow being reduced to 0 HP having a critical injury chart instead of instant death, put in some kind of roll mechanic for magic. I'm thinking that AC can maybe work the same way, even though it wouldn't be as DR - it just makes a low roll be a non-hit.
What do experienced WHFRPG and OSR GMs think?
... you do gain wounds (ie "HP") as you go up in career. A "first level" fighter might have 10-12 wounds. A 3rd career one might have 20.IMHO, you can get close enough for government work by cutting and pasting what you think is best for you from previous efforts:
Have a good look at those and see what you can port over that works best.
The Important thing to maintain the WH feel is to not have hit points that increase by level.
Going to a Fixed Hit point total changes "D&D" a lot. And leaving in the hit point level inflation is the main reason d20 games got a rep for not fitting the genre's they were churned out for.
But if you fix the HP at a low amount you can get a very gritty feel to the game.
I'm very concerned about the death spiral built in the new system.Having played 1st and 2nd Ed extensively, 4e definitely sorts several issues. Including the Whiff factor, the ridiculous OP combinations dwarf slayers for instance, drawn out combats early into campaigns. It’s madness not to give the current edition a go.
Because of advantage or the critical hit system?I'm very concerned about the death spiral built in the new system.
I'm very concerned about the death spiral built in the new system.