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How Would You Design Fourth Edition?

Intriguing question. When I first heard about 4e, I started coming up with ideas for how I'd personally do 4e but decided to give up and wait until 4e came out before actually making anything. That way I could work it as houserules to 4e and keep it compatible.

However the 4e previews haven't impressed me, so I've been considering lately making my own "fourth edition" out of the ideas I had a while ago. Here are my current ideas.

# Create a 0th level representing a character's background at this level you are granted most of the benefits people get at 1st level. Extra hit points and skills, your character's wealth, that sort of thing. This allows extra characterisation, and would be similar to kits from 2e or those background selections from d20 modern (not too familiar with that system though). The biggest reason for this though is that it would allow multiclassing without the 1st level dilemna. (Also many NPCs could just have their 0th level).

# The variety of actions, iterative action and initiative replaced by a system in which each character has a number of action points, influenced by dexterity, which are spent to perform actions. More involved actions would cost more action points to perform. I'm still working on the exact way this would work, but I want to keep this simpler than the exalted tick system (though it would work with similar concepts).

# Every attack and its related damage would be resolved with a single roll and some simple arithmetic.

# Number of hit points would be significantly reduced but most attacks would deal 1 hit point with it increasingly difficult to deal higher numbers of hit points at once. Once hit points run out the character doesn't die automatically but has to resist death each time they are hit, suffering some secondary effect if they succeed (perhaps ability damage or its new equivalent).

# A spell design system that allows balanced spells to be created for any level. (With inspiration from GURPS powers).

# Monster classes that you can use to build any creature based on their role in the adventure . So you could build a monster by giving it 3 levels of Brute and 2 levels of Mastermind, or whatever (possibly with these classes based a little on the attribute classes of d20 modern). You could also give them a 0th level based on their Type which grants them their appropriate characteristics. This could get more specific as well with things like templates but built more like prestige classes. Then an MM wouldn't necessarily have monsters in it but instead have the classes and prestige classes and you could assemble them yourself. Another book could come with prebuilt monsters for those searching for inspiration.

# Stances (like BO9S) for all classes reflecting their appropriate abilities. Things like uncanny dodge and the like can be rebuilt into stances.

# Numerical attributes will be replaced with simply modifiers, (Like True20) and each level of +1 possessed will grant a benefit related to that attribute. (Like the D20 Modern classes special abilities)

# Each weapon will grant a unique benefit from wielding it. For example Axes may allow a character to sunder more easily. These abilities are enhanced by having a proficiency and more by a speciality.

...maybe more to come later, it's hard remembering all the ideas I had.
 

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Whatever it is, I'd like to see it top off at about 64 pages for the PHB and cost $10-$15.
This should be something that a reasonable person could learn or teach themselves in a single day.

Bring in the MM and DMG at similar price points and you are set.
I'd want to see NO official splatbooks.


Then, I wouldn't mind supplemental ADVENTURES or CITIES or other similar material (no new rules, only setting materials), each coming in at 24-48 pages, softcoveer, and costing about $12 each.


Obviously you'd have to streamline a LOT of stuff. You might not have the luxury of distinguishing between a cutlass, scimitar, sword.

You might have to loose some minutia in order to accomplish this.

You would also not have a sustainable business model. It is not a cash cow like previous incarnations of D&D.
 

My main focus would be races:
Races all 'sum positive.'
Each race gets a number of race feats and options, some of which are unique to the race; the goal is to let you play on different aspects of the race, and to make a dwarven cleric have options distinct from an elven cleric.

Over advancement, there would be further feats and/or options for members of a race to develop.
 

fnwc said:
This sounds more like Robo Rally than D&D to me.
Will people stop bagging on my Totally Original Movement System (do not steal)!

And if its so ubiquitous, why doesn't Dungeons & Dragons use it?!
 

Thank you Zamkaizer for creating this thread.

I think 4E will correct errors from 3E. And I'm going to play 4E.

But D&D is D&D. Since 3E John Snow (post 202) pointed out in the "Classes... much less flexible than advertised" that the D&D class system is very much entranched in an irreversible trend of non-flexibility with the class role definition (every class will have a protected niche). I very much agree on this.

4E will be truly amazing when all the power sources, and all classes and their options (PP and ED) in both PHB1 and PHB2 and all its supplements will be released. In two years the non-flexibility will be an idea of the past and will be very fun and inspiring. It will just take a lot of time until we reach this point, that is my main criticism.

I would like it if 4E would be a point-based system with full do-it-yourself kits, but it goes against everything D&D was and has been, and I respect this. We need the game to continue and perfect itself and to offer its system as it is. Long life D&D.
 
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Here is an interesting thought... Why not make a bunch of polls based on RPG options, and see which ones gain favor. And build an RPG off of it, which is community-created in a democratic way (voting).

One option could be:
Class based system
Skill based system
Story based system

Then whichever wins in the poll, assume that is what we are using. Assume Class based system wins. Taking that into account, what classes would you want to see? And list a poll for them. The top X wins...

Of course, this would take a LONG LONG time to finish off, given all the factors of RPG design and mechanics, but it would be interesting to see the finished product of what an RPG community could come up with.

So, anyone up to the task? (I'm certainly not :))
 

How would I design 4th edition? If I was hired by WotC I'd focus on profitiblity:

1. Ensure that 4th edition is not backwards compatible. Players should need to buy a new version of each supplement/splat, not reuse what they already have.

2. Make the game as grid-and-miniatures dependent as possible. The profit margins on miniatures and dungeon tiles are pretty high, so you want to entrench in the mind of the consumer that they are integral to the game.

3. Sell the core game in three volumes (PHB, DMG, MM) instead of one, then publish updates annually. Make sure that the consumer realizes that they need to buy all the updates to "stay current". The sales success of v3.5 shows that they will do this.

4. Focus on the profits possible via character customization. Character engineering is just as important, if not more important, than adventuring. This provides an opportunity to sell a lot of splatbooks that feature feats and powers - especially if these feats and powers are more powerful than the ones in the core books.

5. Attempt to get players to pay a monthly fee. Electronic subscription models are highly profitable since they cut out the middle man (the book/game store) and once customers get used to paying them, they tend to stop noticing how much they're spending. Tie previously free things, such as errata and electronic copies of the rules, to the subscription.
 

WheresMyD20 said:
How would I design 4th edition? If I was hired by WotC I'd focus on profitiblity:

1. Ensure that 4th edition is not backwards compatible. Players should need to buy a new version of each supplement/splat, not reuse what they already have.

2. Make the game as grid-and-miniatures dependent as possible. The profit margins on miniatures and dungeon tiles are pretty high, so you want to entrench in the mind of the consumer that they are integral to the game.

3. Sell the core game in three volumes (PHB, DMG, MM) instead of one, then publish updates annually. Make sure that the consumer realizes that they need to buy all the updates to "stay current". The sales success of v3.5 shows that they will do this.

4. Focus on the profits possible via character customization. Character engineering is just as important, if not more important, than adventuring. This provides an opportunity to sell a lot of splatbooks that feature feats and powers - especially if these feats and powers are more powerful than the ones in the core books.

5. Attempt to get players to pay a monthly fee. Electronic subscription models are highly profitable since they cut out the middle man (the book/game store) and once customers get used to paying them, they tend to stop noticing how much they're spending. Tie previously free things, such as errata and electronic copies of the rules, to the subscription.
6. Call it the BIG FAT STUPID HEAD edition, 'cause that's the what the people who'd make it'd be!

Welcome to EN World--I wish you wouldn't make a mockery of my thread (in before, "I wish they wouldn't make a mockery of my game").
 

Zamkaizer said:
Welcome to EN World--I wish you wouldn't make a mockery of my thread (in before, "I wish they wouldn't make a mockery of my game").

Dang it, you stole my line.

cannot resist temptation to say "7. Introduce a reptilian race with boobs!"
 

WyzardWhately said:
Oh, I have no doubt that my 4E would be a complete commercial failure.

But, let me go ahead and throw a few things out there.

It'd look a lot like BECMI or Rules Cyclopedia, but cleaned up. Attack Bonus instead of Thac0, high level spell damage turned down (no more d6/level, that's just too much). Many of the standard house rules would be implemented, like max HP at first level, no dying until some number of negative HP, etc. There would be skills, but more like the Cyclopedia skills: you can get some little bennies with a skill, but you generally can get by with attribute checks and a convincing background. Get rid of demihuman level limits, give humans something cool, like I said, generally clean the game up a little.

Insert some dramatic conflict resolution rules usable for social combat, sieges and other large-scale military actions, and administrating kingdoms once you hit Name level and got your tower or whatever.

Lastly, the whole game would fit in some thick paperbacks, the dimensions more resembling novels than normal game-books. This is because the game would come in a lunchbox with sweet fantasy art on the front, containing polyhedrals, a sample adventure, and a pad of character sheets. I would put less marketing effort into the web (sorry guys) and more into trying to get the damn thing into the board game aisle in Wal Mart. If Heroscape can get in there, my D&D Lunchbox set should be able to, as well.

Awesome. Wal-Mart lol.

First, I would drop alignment altogether. Maybe have the Heel and Face idea from rasslin' you can switch teams at crucial times lol.

Second, I'd consider interface. Players should be using the PHB for rules research a lot less than in 3.x. The Character sheet would be simplified (Make a new character you have 5 minutes) and streamlined only penmanship could potentially impair your ability to decipher a character. It would also only need one frickin' side.

Third, Mini's would be available for use. But not in stupid random booster packs. In fact you'd be able to go online or on the phone and buy a set of exactly what you want. Some common critters and Iconics would be available in stores.

Fourth, a custom made for the game dry/wet erase battlemats would be available in sizes up to 8' X 8'.
 

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