How would you divvy up the material in the core books?

[mmadsen]

Another thread recently looked at games that fit into one book versus D&D with its tradition of three core books. I'd like to ask a related question: How would you divvy up the material in the core books? Is three the magic number? Is all that core material in the right books, or would you move it around? Is there anything that should be in the core books that was left out? Are there big chunks of the supposed core you just don't use?

 

[Voadam]

Stat blocks for familiars, horses, animal companions, and summoned monsters should be in the Player's Handbook. You should not need an MM to play a core character and use his powers.

 

[crazy_monkey1956]

Whole heartedly agree. Anything the PCs can summon, familiarize, mount, companionize, or otherwise use in an adventure should have a mini-stat block in the PHB. Granted, only those that come up fairly frequently should be in there, as some summonables are often adversaries as well (the higher level Summon Monster spells). So, maybe all the animals that can be familiars and 1st level animal companions; horses, ponies, mules, and other common ridables and mobile backpacks; and all the summonables from the 1st level Summon spells. Maybe put all the other critters that PCs could possibly have access to in a supplement (Complete Companion).

Likewise, anything the PCs could reasonably afford to purchase at 1st level, including magic items, should be in the PHB.

 

[Eonthar]

I would probably divide it into 5 books.

The Player's Handbook: Includes all the information that you need to create a character. Includes stat blocks for familiars and mounts and such, as well as prestige classes, replacement levels, alternate classes, and so on. In order to make this book less than 500 pages, I would remove spells.

The Spell Compendium: Includes all spells.

The Dungeon Master's Guide: Includes rules for running a game, how to create a campaign, how to create a world. Optional/alternate rules that can be used to tweak the system. Includes a lot of the information from the DMG II. Would not include magic items.

The Magic Item Compendium: Includes all magic items.

The Monster Manual/Compendium: Includes a wide variety of monsters/templates/ and so on.

While this may seem like a lot, as long as the price is right, I do not think that this would cause too many complaints.

 

[crazy_monkey1956]

Using the 5 book model above, assuming each book is smaller, at about $15 a book (for the sake of argument), that's $75 for the whole set. Compare that to 3 books at about $30 each now ($90)...that's not bad. Now, more realistically, bump the 5 book model up to $20 each, and we get $100 total. That's slightly less good. :\

 

[der_kluge]

HARP squeezes it all into 1 book.

D&D likes lists. And lists of lists. Lots and lots of lists. Lists of spells, lists of monsters, and statblocks and descriptions for everything. That takes up mountains of room. I would argue that there are too many magic items, spells and monsters in D&D. Really, all you need are the rules to create magic items, and a few sample items. GMs can create the rest of them, or they can show up in modules. The DMG tries to include every magic item ever known. What's the point of that? To make the game more generic? If so, it worked.

 

[jmucchiello]

I'd still break it down by level.

• Basic D&D: Play for levels 1-4, including classes, spells 0-2, monsters CR up to 5, Potions, wands and scrolls only, All the combat rules, dungeoneering rules (doors, walls, traps)
• Extended D&D: Play for levels 5-12, including classes, prestige classes, spells 3-6, monsters CR 6-13, rest of the magic items (except artifacts), wilderness and city rules, on-going campaigning advice
• High-Level D&D: Play for levels 13-20, including classes, prc, spells 7-9, monsters 14-20, artifacts, planar rules, more advice
• Epic D&D: Play for levels 21-40, include whatever's left (note the 40, D&D really does need limits.
• Deities & Demigoes: Play for immortality

Responding to the 5 book theory: combine the spells and magic items into a single magic book. There's a lot of duplication between spells and magic items that could save a lot of space by being combined.

And I agree with Der Kludge: information about the costs of potions, scrolls, and wands are especially redundant. That information could be in the spell description if it varied widely enough (say if a system like AU/AE's "better" spells have multipliers when placed in a magic item).

Finally, notice no one mentions psionics.

 

[Tiberius]

I'd still break it down by level.

• Basic D&D: Play for levels 1-4, including classes, spells 0-2, monsters CR up to 5, Potions, wands and scrolls only, All the combat rules, dungeoneering rules (doors, walls, traps)
• Extended D&D: Play for levels 5-12, including classes, prestige classes, spells 3-6, monsters CR 6-13, rest of the magic items (except artifacts), wilderness and city rules, on-going campaigning advice
• High-Level D&D: Play for levels 13-20, including classes, prc, spells 7-9, monsters 14-20, artifacts, planar rules, more advice
• Epic D&D: Play for levels 21-40, include whatever's left (note the 40, D&D really does need limits.
• Deities & Demigoes: Play for immortality

Heh; perhaps we could color-code them. Red for the first set, blue for the second, beige for the third, black for the fourth...

 

[Voadam]

Finally, notice no one mentions psionics.

Well, the main question was how you would divvy up the core books. What would you add in and what you don't use were secondary questions.

I'd like spontaneous divine caster options from UA and warlocks from CAr to be core.

I don't use most of the DMG, mostly the magic item sections, the prcs, and the xp charts.

MM, I use a lot, but I'd be fine with cutting it down to size to fit in an all in one 500 page rulebook.

I would be happy with an all in one condensed book with lots of spells, items, and monsters cut, two books split between players (adding in appropriate player controlled monster stat blocks) and a DM one that combines DMG and Monster Manual, or with the three book split now.
I didn't buy any of the three core again when 3.5 rolled out, I use the srd and think the three book investment is a bit steep for entry into the game.

 

[WayneLigon]

With a mind to not re-writing the game, I'd do the following:

Drop about half or more of the spells, monsters and magic items. The PHB is about 96 pages, with character class info, spells, some combat, and the simplified and condensed stat blocks of creatures the PC's normally use (horses, familiars and summoned creatures, for example). The GM's Guide would contain the monsters and magic items, campaign creation help, and other guidelines. Ir would be a thicker book, about the saize it is now, maybe a little more. Save the tons of lists for a web enhancement or something you include with a product like the DM's Screen or Character Sheets.