How Would You Do 1 Epic character against 6 players?

[mattcolville]

I couldn't find a way to really condense my problem into the title.

For reasons listed below, I want to run a game where the players run 21st level dudes. Just starting off in the Epic tier.

But I want to make the act of Bringing The Party Together kinda epic as well, and my idea is to start with one character who goes around gathering the others. In each case, doing so requires fighting through an encounter.

So the first encounter will be one PC. The second, two PCs, etc....

Obviously the other players would have nothing to do while they wait to be recruited.

I hit upon the idea of having the players run the bad guys! That would be fun, I think. My group is sufficiently sophisticated that they'd do their level best even on offense, as it were, and if things got nasty I could always use the opportunity to drop the next PC in.

The question, as you may have guessed, is; how do I balance a combat between 1 21st level PC and like 6 monsters? We have a big group!

My concern is that in order for six enemies not to be a slaughter, they'd have to be so low level as to not be a challenge.

Anyone have any advice?

 

[Asmor]

Don't. Start off with the first encounter as he's recruiting someone, making it a more easily-manageable 2 on 5.

That or minions.

 

[mattcolville]

Yeah I guess if it were mathematically possible, I'd not have ended up here.

Probably 2 PCs against 4 bad guys would be more reasonable.

 

[fissionessence]

Okay this is kind of crazy:

Build the monsters as PCs. Each player makes a bugbear (for example). One makes a caster, one a fighter, etc. for a balanced PC party or a balanced monster encounter.

Capture the 'feel' of the 21st level PC as a solo monster. The player should have built the character, now you transform it into a monster form. The [bugbear] PCs can be like 11-15th level, and the PC can be built as a solo monster several levels higher than the PCs. The actual level doesn't matter, just the relative power of the PCs to the enemies.

Now, the player 'starring' in this encounter acts as the DM, running the solo monster that's built as his PC. The other players all get character sheets that are 'technically' supposed to be characters, but are acting like monsters. You, the DM, also play one of these monster characters for kind of a twist.

The solo monster (PC) should be high enough level to TPK the characters (monsters), thus progressing the story. It's kind of weird, as the system assumes PCs should win most of the time, but if you build the solo brutally enough and make it several levels higher (3-5?) you should be able to have a fun, interesting encounter. The players should know they're supposed to lose, but can still put up a good fight.

I hope that idea didn't come out too convoluted.

~ fissionessence

 

[mattcolville]

That's a damned good idea but after reading and thinking about it I think it'd be a little problematic.

The PC/Monsters would have things like Daily Powers and no incentive not to just bliz through them.

Also, they'll only be running these monsters for one encounter each which would be a phenomenal amount of sheer learning on their part given all the abilities they'll have.

The 2 PC solution seems inevitable, as it gives me enough XP to challenge a 2 player Epic party with 4 17th level dudes and the math looks pretty good on that. And when you look at the monster abilities, they're just so much more sane for something I'm going to hand to someone sight unseen and say "here, run this."

It was a good idea though!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi there mattcolville!

What you could also do is make the first encounter with a 'Solo' PC vs. 5 others and the second encounter two 'Elite' PCs vs. 4 others.

For the Solo PC, multiply hp by five and allow two Action Points per encounter. For attacks they could perhaps use 3 At-will or 2 Encounter powers per round.

For the Elite PCs, double hit points and allow one Action Point per encounter. For attacks they could use 2 At-will powers per round.

Perhaps the first PC has an artifact that divides its power amongst the group (in this case a group of one gains all the power, making it a solo adversary, while in the second encounter its power is spread over the two PCs.)

I haven't tested this idea, but I have been pondering how I would tackle 4E solo PC play in a way other than reducing the level of the enemies.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

The first combat is so mathematically ridiculous.

Run it yourself, use level appropriate minion to end it quickly. Heck, give each player a level appropriate minion.

Second combat, use level appropriate (or level -1) defenses, drop the enemy damage and and reduce the enemy hp by half.

The third combat is equal ground, and past that is easy.

I'd advise giving a player a "solo version" of their character for a short time. UK's idea is in the right direction for a solo campaign, but I could imagine some players not liking going back to normal PC rules.