How would you go about converting from BECMI/1e to v3.5?

I tried some time ago to update The Lost City (B4? I misremember the tag) and one thing that I noticed is exactly what's being talked about here. 3e monsters aren't just a little bit tougher, they're a LOT tougher.

I remember in one of the early encounters in the module, they had something like 10 or 15 stirges. This is pretty much a guaranteed TPK against a 1st level party because of the con drain and the damage they do.

You likely will have to drop the numbers considerably to make the challenges work. You mention the Temple of Tharizudun (or howeverdahell you spell that). IIRC, that module has one massively honking big encounter right near the entrance to the temple where pretty much the entire population of dungeon attacks you at the same time.

In 1e, you could do this because the monsters did so little damage AND they had next to no bonuses to hit. Sure, their THACO might be about 10 or so, but, the fighters by that level are running negative AC's and a buff spell or two can make that even better. When the monsters are only hitting 20-30% at best and doing d6 or d8 per attack with no bonuses, you can afford to dump 15:1 ratios at the party.

That won't work in 3e. You'll just splat the party.

The idea of just using higher level PC's has problems too. If the PC's are too high of a level, two things could happen: First, the PC's cakewalk the encounter because they have resources the baddies can't counter (blade barrier for example will massacre a large encounter of lower level opponents) or; Second the PC's get competely overwhelmed by the encounter because of the numbers and some lucky rolls on the part of the DM.

IME, when you start dealing with encounters with these large numbers like you have in the old modules, encounters can very quickly turn binary - cakewalk or TPK with nothing in between.

Just something to be wary of.
 

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It's not clear to me how much you want to convert. To do a full campaign conversion, you could use the AD&D->3e conversion document for most of the important numbers, like level, ability scores, and so forth. Paladins, avengers, knights, and druids would all be prestige classes. Elves would be fighter/wizard/eldritch knights, halflings would be fighters with some rogue levels, and dwarves would be dwarf fighters (maybe fighter/dwarven defenders). There are only three alignments. A lot of spells did not exist in BECMI that have some significant effects on game play.

If, on the other hand, you just wanted to use the broad outlines of the game, and use the old modules, you wouldn't have to convert much at all. If you encountered a paladin in a BECMI module, you could just turn him into a 3.5 paladin, or you could look at his capabilities and decide maybe he should be a fighter/cleric or maybe a fighter/pious templar or whatever. Most of the monsters have rough equivalents. Monsters with significant abilities would probably translate as a monster of the equivalent CR to its Hit Dice, while most classic beaters and beasts would be CR = HD/2. Then you would play with the numbers to meet DMG guidelines.

Encounters might not rebalancing, but in most causes this could be done by counting up the EL and probably adding or substracting a monster.

Keeping in mind the DMG view of a mix of ELs, it's okay if some of the stuff seems a little high or a little low.
 

I tried some time ago to update The Lost City (B4? I misremember the tag) and one thing that I noticed is exactly what's being talked about here. 3e monsters aren't just a little bit tougher, they're a LOT tougher.

I remember in one of the early encounters in the module, they had something like 10 or 15 stirges. This is pretty much a guaranteed TPK against a 1st level party because of the con drain and the damage they do.
I ran The Lost City in a 2e campaign some time ago without doing any real conversions. I simply used the 2e monsters in place of the stats in the module. It went okay. I was a real novice then so I made plenty of mistakes, which my player's capitalized on.

It was a lot of fun.

You likely will have to drop the numbers considerably to make the challenges work. You mention the Temple of Tharizudun (or howeverdahell you spell that). IIRC, that module has one massively honking big encounter right near the entrance to the temple where pretty much the entire population of dungeon attacks you at the same time.

In 1e, you could do this because the monsters did so little damage AND they had next to no bonuses to hit. Sure, their THACO might be about 10 or so, but, the fighters by that level are running negative AC's and a buff spell or two can make that even better. When the monsters are only hitting 20-30% at best and doing d6 or d8 per attack with no bonuses, you can afford to dump 15:1 ratios at the party.

That won't work in 3e. You'll just splat the party.
Yeah, the initial encounter for the Forgotten Temple makes me a little nervous. I'll likely have to cut down on the number of norkers that the PCs face at one time. Plus, I'm already planning on using ogres instead of giants for the module to make it a little less lethal.

The idea of just using higher level PC's has problems too. If the PC's are too high of a level, two things could happen: First, the PC's cakewalk the encounter because they have resources the baddies can't counter (blade barrier for example will massacre a large encounter of lower level opponents) or; Second the PC's get competely overwhelmed by the encounter because of the numbers and some lucky rolls on the part of the DM.

IME, when you start dealing with encounters with these large numbers like you have in the old modules, encounters can very quickly turn binary - cakewalk or TPK with nothing in between.

Just something to be wary of.
Good advice. Thanks for your insights.
 

It's not clear to me how much you want to convert. To do a full campaign conversion, you could use the AD&D->3e conversion document for most of the important numbers, like level, ability scores, and so forth. Paladins, avengers, knights, and druids would all be prestige classes. Elves would be fighter/wizard/eldritch knights, halflings would be fighters with some rogue levels, and dwarves would be dwarf fighters (maybe fighter/dwarven defenders). There are only three alignments. A lot of spells did not exist in BECMI that have some significant effects on game play.
I could see how the 2e to 3e conversion document might work for 1e, but I would think the numbers would be kind of skewed if I used it for BECMI NPCs.

Would BECMI ability scores really be equal to 1e and/or 3e ability scores? I would think they'd not be as powerful. (Of course, when it comes to 2e versus 3e regarding Strength it isn't the same because of exceptional strength precentages.)

If, on the other hand, you just wanted to use the broad outlines of the game, and use the old modules, you wouldn't have to convert much at all. If you encountered a paladin in a BECMI module, you could just turn him into a 3.5 paladin, or you could look at his capabilities and decide maybe he should be a fighter/cleric or maybe a fighter/pious templar or whatever. Most of the monsters have rough equivalents. Monsters with significant abilities would probably translate as a monster of the equivalent CR to its Hit Dice, while most classic beaters and beasts would be CR = HD/2. Then you would play with the numbers to meet DMG guidelines.
Hmm, food for thought. :hmm:

Encounters might not [need] rebalancing, but in most causes this could be done by counting up the EL and probably adding or substracting a monster.

Keeping in mind the DMG view of a mix of ELs, it's okay if some of the stuff seems a little high or a little low.
Trying to find the right mix of ELs is what I've been considering the most. If I can get the right mix of ELs then I can figure out how tough the PCs need to be in order to handle the adventure. Of course, there is also the changes in treasure that will have to be made if I significantly increase the power level of the monsters and NPCs.

This all sounds very daunting. :heh:
 

Honestly Knightfall, I don't think a 1:1 conversion is the way to go. It might work, but, it's going to be an uphill battle.

I think your idea of replacing monsters, and just doing a thematic conversion is a better one.

Note, you might want to pick up some of the later Paizo Dragon magazines. I know they updated a large number of Mystara monsters for 3e. I misremember exactly which issues.
 

Honestly Knightfall, I don't think a 1:1 conversion is the way to go. It might work, but, it's going to be an uphill battle.

I think your idea of replacing monsters, and just doing a thematic conversion is a better one.
I think that's the best plan. I'm sure I'll keep some of the numbers the same but I want the adventures to reflect my campaign world and some of the monsters I've built into its background.

Ogres, for example, are a major villain race for one of my continents. I also use a race of winged goblins I call the Bakleth. I see a few of the norkers in the Forgotten Temple being replaced by bakleths. :p

Note, you might want to pick up some of the later Paizo Dragon magazines. I know they updated a large number of Mystara monsters for 3e. I misremember exactly which issues.
I have all those DRAGON magazines. Paizo rocks! :cool:
 

Treebore,

Here's my first attempt at a class template. I used a 9th-level cleric from the free D&D adventure "The Tower of Deception" as my starting point. I bumped up the character's level to 12th.

12th-Level Cleric (CR 12)
hp 73 (12d8+15)
_____________________________________
Male human cleric 12 (choose deity)
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +0; Senses Listen +4, Smell +4, Spot +4, Taste +4
Aura Cleric aura as appropriate for deity
Languages Common plus one other language
_____________________________________
AC 22 (+11 armor, +1 deflection), touch 11, flat-footed 22
Fort +10, Ref +7, Will +13
_____________________________________
Speed 20 ft. (4 squares); base 30 ft.
Melee +2 quarterstaff +14 (1d6+4/x2) or
Melee +2 quarterstaff +14/+9 (1d6+4/x2) or
Ranged Shortbow +9 (1d6/x3) or
Ranged Shortbow +9/+4 (1d6/x3)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +9; Grp +11
Atk Options None
Special Actions Turn or rebuke undead 4/day
Combat Gear Potion of cure moderate wounds (x2), potion of owl's wisdom, potion of protection from arrows 10/magic
Spells Prepared 6/6+1/5+1/5+1/4+1/3+1/2+1; base DC = 14 + spell level
_____________________________________
Abilities Str 14 (+2), Dex 11 (+0), Con 13 (+1), Int 12 (+1), Wis 18 (+4), Cha 13 (+1)
SA Domains (choose two domains), turn or rebuke undead
SQ Divine spells, spontaneous casting
Feats Lightning Reflexes, Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (choose school), Spell Penetration, Toughness, Weapon Focus (quarterstaff)
Skills Concentration +16, Healing +18, Knowledge (religion) +16
Possessions +3 full plate armor, +2 quarterstaff, cloak of resistance +1, periapt of wisdom +2, ring of protection +1, shortbow w/10 arrows, and a pouch containing 185 gp and 40 sp.
 
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12th-Level Wizard (CR 12)
hp 21 (12d4-12)
_____________________________________
Male human wizard 12
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Listen +3, Smell +1, Spot +3, Taste +1
Languages Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnoll, and Orc.
_____________________________________
AC 13 (+2 Dex, +1 deflection), touch 13, flat-footed 11
Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +9
_____________________________________
Speed 30 feet (6 squares)
Melee Masterwork dagger +7 (1d4/19-20/x2) or
Melee Masterwork dagger +7/+2 (1d4/19-20/x2) or
Ranged Ranged touch +8 (effect varies) or
Ranged Ranged touch +8/+3 ranged (effect varies)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +6; Grp +6
Atk Options None
Special Actions None
Combat Gear Wand of confusion (20 charges), wand of haste (15 charges), potion of cure serious wounds, scroll of dimensional anchor, scroll of Empowered fireball
Spells Prepared 4/6/5/5/4/4/2; base save DC = 15 + spell level
_____________________________________
Abilities Str 10 (+0), Dex 14 (+2), Con 8 (-1), Int 20 (+5), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 13 (+1)
SA Arcane spells
SQ Bonus feats, familiar (choose type)
Feats Alertness (granted by familiar), Brew Potion, Craft Wand, Empower Spell, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Investigator, Quicken Spell, [Scribe Scroll], Spell Penetration
Skills Concentration +14, Craft (alchemy) +16, Decipher Script +15, Diplomacy +4, Gather Information +3, Knowledge (choose sub-skill) +16, Knowledge (choose sub-skill) +16, Listen +3, Profession (choose sub-skill) +5, Search +8, Spellcraft +20, Spot +3
Possessions +2 headband of intellect, +1 cloak of resistance, amulet of proof against detection and location, brooch of shielding (absorbs 80 points of magic missile damage), friend shield ring, ring of protection +1, masterwork dagger, pouch containing 12 pp and 60 gp.
Spellbook Contents determined by DM.
 

Yeah, do this for each base class to use as a baseline. Then you modify it up or down from this baseline based on what you need. These just save you a bunch of work, since you won't be making new ones from scratch each time.
 

Yeah, do this for each base class to use as a baseline. Then you modify it up or down from this baseline based on what you need. These just save you a bunch of work, since you won't be making new ones from scratch each time.
It was a good idea. Thanks for suggesting it.

I'll likely keep using this thread to post my ideas including all the class templates I come up with and conversions I do (within the rules that the Mods lay out for me). I don't want to do anything inappropriate regarding conversions.

Anyway...

I'd appreciate it if a Moderator could move this thread to the 3rd Edition House Rules forum.

KF
 

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