D&D 5E How would you handle a player-controlled mine?

[smbakeresq]

Read through the whole thread; thanks everybody! I wanted quick rules for using it as an alternative reward, but some ideas here are really interesting. I think the mine will become more than just an additional income source for the party (I'm afraid my players are too genre savvy to dig too deep, but troubles can come from any place ).

Well, Drow dig up also.

 

[smbakeresq]

If the players are good-aligned (or even lawful neutral), they probably wouldn't object to the original owners regaining possession.

Sure they would. Possession is 9/10 of the law, and since the owners didn't get clear it out themselves they need something for the effort. That town judge who has been compromised wouldn't be much help either.

 

[Ancalagon]

You should also give some thought on what kind of silver deposit is it? Is it pure silver? Galena? ( a lead ore with some silver in it... Lead is valuable too) etc

 

[discosoc]

Sure they would. Possession is 9/10 of the law, and since the owners didn't get clear it out themselves they need something for the effort. That town judge who has been compromised wouldn't be much help either.

That sounds more like Lawful Evil to me.

 

[Ancalagon]

Other source of inspiration: Play Dwarf Fortress

 

[77IM]

If you want something official, the DMG has rules for running a business, which are perfectly adequate (p.129, "Running a Business").

Modifications for running a mine: I'd guestimate a basic mine requires 25 skilled hirelings (miners) and 5 unskilled hirelings (people to cook dinner, wash laundry, etc.). That's a maintenance cost of 51 gp per day, but we'll round it down to 50 gp per day to make the math easier (the Maintenance Costs table on p.127 almost always shows a cost per day that is less than the cost of the listed hirelings). That's super steep compared to the cost of an inn, shop, or trading post; but, a mine has the potential to be much more profitable. So I think it's appropriate to double all the profit numbers (a x10 gp multiplier instead of x5).

If you want something unofficial: I'd just give the mine a monthly income, sort of the opposite of a lifestyle expense. Maybe 50 gp per month, but buying all the initial mining equipment costs 300 gp, so you start out in debt and break even after 6 months. Then I'd rely on random event tables, such as the ones suggested by posters above, to introduce opportunities for adventure.

 

[Ancalagon]

Re # workers: A single person can mine by themselves though. Historically there are instances of these "micro mines" Depending on the "structure" of the mineral vein, there may be limits to how fast the mining can be done - if it's just one long vein, there is just one tunel to mine, ie you can't throw a gazillion people at it.

Here is a demonstration of medieval lead mining:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIbhoR1GBuI (part of the Tudor Monastery Farm series)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XBz4tKhxsc This is Edwardian level tech, but still relevant. Copper mining.

 

[77IM]

That's interesting. I wish that were in the DMG. Now that I look back at the "running a business" rules, it occurs to me that they waste a ton of space on a mostly-useless table of results, that they could have instead used to list examples of the size/cost/profit of businesses of various sizes. For example,

[table="align: left"]
[tr][td]Business[/td][td]Staff[/td][td]Startup Cost[/td][td]Monthly Profit[/td][td]Suggested Ability Check[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inn (small)[/td][td]1-3[/td][td]30 gp[/td][td]4 gp (±8 gp)[/td][td]Charisma (Persuasion)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inn (large)[/td][td]4-6[/td][td]75 gp[/td][td]10 gp (±10 gp)[/td][td]Charisma (Persuasion)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mine (small)[/td][td]1-5[/td][td]20 gp[/td][td]5 gp (±10 gp)[/td][td]Intelligence (mason's tools)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mine (medium)[/td][td]6-25[/td][td]100 gp[/td][td]25 gp (±25 gp)[/td][td]Intelligence (mason's tools)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mine (large)[/td][td]26-100[/td][td]400 gp[/td][td]100 gp (±50 gp)[/td][td]Intelligence (mason's tools)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shop (common goods)[/td][td]1-2[/td][td]50 gp[/td][td]10 gp (±5 gp)[/td][td]Charisma (Persuasion)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shop (uncommon goods)[/td][td]2-4[/td][td]250 gp[/td][td]10 gp (±25 gp)[/td][td]Intelligence (History)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shop (rare goods)[/td][td]3-6[/td][td]1000 gp[/td][td]10 gp (±100 gp)[/td][td]Intelligence (Arcana)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tavern[/td][td]2-5[/td][td]20 gp[/td][td]2 gp (± 2gp)[/td][td]Wisdom (brewer's tools)[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Startup Cost. You must pay this once, to get your business up and running. It covers the cost of initial equipment purchases, any legal licensing required, and recruiting your initial staff. However, it does NOT cover the cost of any real estate required, such a building to serve as a storefront or mineral-rich land in which to mine.

Monthly Profit. Each month, your business pays out profit equal to the gold piece amount listed. This assumes that your staff is running the business, in a sensible, low-risk manner.

Ability Check.If you yourself take a hand in running the business, spending at least 15 downtime days during a the month, make an ability check (suggested checks are listed for each business). On a 9 or less, subtract the parenthetical modifier from that month's profits. On a 10-19, add the parenthetical modifier to that month's profits, and on a 20+, add twice parenthetical modifier to that month's profits.
​

The numbers in the table are SWAGs; this is just an example of how I would prefer business-related rules to work.

 

[Ahrimon]

If the players are good-aligned (or even lawful neutral), they probably wouldn't object to the original owners regaining possession.

Sure they would. Possession is 9/10 of the law, and since the owners didn't get clear it out themselves they need something for the effort. That town judge who has been compromised wouldn't be much help either.

That sounds more like Lawful Evil to me.

Do your players return every item they find? When they defeat the evil orc warlord do they then go and return all of the treasure and items that the orcs have looted and pillaged? Are they looting ancient tombs and then returning the property to the rightful descendants? If not, I think you are being a bit obtuse about what you expect from players.

I don't believe it's evil since they're not hurting anyone. The original owner abandoned the mine and they reclaimed it. End of story. It's a neutral action at worst, but a single action does not define an alignment. Even if you consider it a selfish or jerkish move that wouldn't make a character evil to me.

 

[Ahrimon]

That's interesting. I wish that were in the DMG. Now that I look back at the "running a business" rules, it occurs to me that they waste a ton of space on a mostly-useless table of results, that they could have instead used to list examples of the size/cost/profit of businesses of various sizes. For example,

[table="align: left"]
[tr][td]Business[/td][td]Staff[/td][td]Startup Cost[/td][td]Monthly Profit[/td][td]Suggested Ability Check[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inn (small)[/td][td]1-3[/td][td]30 gp[/td][td]4 gp (±8 gp)[/td][td]Charisma (Persuasion)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Inn (large)[/td][td]4-6[/td][td]75 gp[/td][td]10 gp (±10 gp)[/td][td]Charisma (Persuasion)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mine (small)[/td][td]1-5[/td][td]20 gp[/td][td]5 gp (±10 gp)[/td][td]Intelligence (mason's tools)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mine (medium)[/td][td]6-25[/td][td]100 gp[/td][td]25 gp (±25 gp)[/td][td]Intelligence (mason's tools)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mine (large)[/td][td]26-100[/td][td]400 gp[/td][td]100 gp (±50 gp)[/td][td]Intelligence (mason's tools)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shop (common goods)[/td][td]1-2[/td][td]50 gp[/td][td]10 gp (±5 gp)[/td][td]Charisma (Persuasion)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shop (uncommon goods)[/td][td]2-4[/td][td]250 gp[/td][td]10 gp (±25 gp)[/td][td]Intelligence (History)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Shop (rare goods)[/td][td]3-6[/td][td]1000 gp[/td][td]10 gp (±100 gp)[/td][td]Intelligence (Arcana)[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tavern[/td][td]2-5[/td][td]20 gp[/td][td]2 gp (± 2gp)[/td][td]Wisdom (brewer's tools)[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Startup Cost. You must pay this once, to get your business up and running. It covers the cost of initial equipment purchases, any legal licensing required, and recruiting your initial staff. However, it does NOT cover the cost of any real estate required, such a building to serve as a storefront or mineral-rich land in which to mine.

Monthly Profit. Each month, your business pays out profit equal to the gold piece amount listed. This assumes that your staff is running the business, in a sensible, low-risk manner.

Ability Check.If you yourself take a hand in running the business, spending at least 15 downtime days during a the month, make an ability check (suggested checks are listed for each business). On a 9 or less, subtract the parenthetical modifier from that month's profits. On a 10-19, add the parenthetical modifier to that month's profits, and on a 20+, add twice parenthetical modifier to that month's profits.
​

The numbers in the table are SWAGs; this is just an example of how I would prefer business-related rules to work.

I like it, but I think that your monthly profit may be a bit low for some of them. Consider a shop doesn't even pull in enough profit to provide for one person. If you considered someone was really rich and could own multiple shops, it would take that rich person owning 3 shops just to provide the income of one skilled laborer.