D&D 4E How would you re-envision Darksun with 4e?

[Cryptos]

I think Dark Sun would need a different power source to describe the differences between core arcane magic, and how (non-divine) magic works in the setting.

If they did this, then they could "keep" revised versions of each arcane class. A Dark Sun adapted Wizard could be a Preserver, and a Dark Sun adapted Warlock could be a Defiler, for instance. (Maybe a 4e Defiler makes pacts for the ability to drain the world of living things in exchange for power, and this suits some otherworldly power.) Or just make new classes for them entirely.

But I think a good first step or instruction for the setting would be: Remove all references to the Arcane power source, replace them with X power source instead. Essence Power Source or Channeling Power Source, for instance.

"Arcane" describes the pursuit of a power that is essentially a fundamental force in the default worlds of D&D. What Dark Sun casters do isn't so much a force in its own right any more, it's more of stealing the essence of living things and channeling it to create an arcane-like power source.

The second major component you'd need for the setting would be the psionics, so there would be a bit of a wait there while WotC decides what to do with them.

Everything else should be a small job in comparison after magic and psionics - the races and so forth.

If they did tackle it, I'd like to see them take it back to the original boxed set as the default, perhaps with a chapter that discusses the storyline as it has advanced, and how to begin a campaign at different places in the timeline.

 

[Werebat]

Ditto on the original box set being the only "true" Dark Sun, but unfortunately the setting's fans - or at least the ones running Athas.org - have embraced all the later story developments. Removing all that from the table just isn't going to happen, and so Dark Sun remains a sad husk of a once-interesting setting.

In any case, the new elves look like they would work very well as Athasian elves. The halflings probably will as well (as did the 3e halflings). The new approach to races-with-extra-powers may make the half-giant and thri-kreen much more workable than they have been in the past, but we haven't seen any actual examples of how this works yet.

HALF -- GIANTS -- ARE -- NOT -- MAN-SIZED!!! THEY ARE BIG BIG THINGS!!! USE THE HILL GIANT STATS AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!

THRI-KREEN ARE LARGE!!! THEY ARE NOT MAN-SIZED PEANUT-BUTTED ANT LOOKING THINGS!!! THEY ARE *LARGE* MANTIS-FOLK WITH BIG ABDOMENS!!!

GITH SHOULD HAVE THE LEAP ATTACK FEAT!!!

Whew... Sorry, just had to get that off of my chest.

- Ron ^*^

 

[Flobby]

I think Dark Sun would need a different power source to describe the differences between core arcane magic, and how (non-divine) magic works in the setting.

If they did this, then they could "keep" revised versions of each arcane class. A Dark Sun adapted Wizard could be a Preserver, and a Dark Sun adapted Warlock could be a Defiler, for instance. (Maybe a 4e Defiler makes pacts for the ability to drain the world of living things in exchange for power, and this suits some otherworldly power.) Or just make new classes for them entirely.

But I think a good first step or instruction for the setting would be: Remove all references to the Arcane power source, replace them with X power source instead. Essence Power Source or Channeling Power Source, for instance.

"Arcane" describes the pursuit of a power that is essentially a fundamental force in the default worlds of D&D. What Dark Sun casters do isn't so much a force in its own right any more, it's more of stealing the essence of living things and channeling it to create an arcane-like power source.

I didn't like the idea of having new power sources but that kinda makes sense. Divine as defined in the core rules doesnt seem to fit the druids and clerics power sources either...

 

[Cryptos]

I didn't like the idea of having new power sources but that kinda makes sense. Divine as defined in the core rules doesnt seem to fit the druids and clerics power sources either...

Making it distinct also presents the opportunity for crossover appeal. If Wizards were to say "here's our version of the Dark Sun wizard, the Defiler" or "this is how wizards work in Dark Sun" then it's a very Dark Sun-specific thing.

If they say "here's a new power source and some new classes or versions of classes created for Dark Sun, that you can incorporate into your own worlds" then there's more of an incentive for Wizards to actually do this. There is some crunch there that any D&D gamer might be tempted to use at least sparingly - perhaps a DM introducing a menacing defiler villain who discovered a quicker path to power than traditional arcane means, or a player that wants a more environmentalist feel to a caster with preserver.

You can still do that if Wizards just kept the Dark Sun casters arcane and modified the core a bit, or told you how to modify the core... but that has less portability, marketability, and broad appeal.

It makes sense (to me, at least) to do it not just from the standpoint of setting and general 4e consistency but also from a marketing standpoint.

 

[Spatula]

HALF -- GIANTS -- ARE -- NOT -- MAN-SIZED!!! THEY ARE BIG BIG THINGS!!! USE THE HILL GIANT STATS AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!

THRI-KREEN ARE LARGE!!! THEY ARE NOT MAN-SIZED PEANUT-BUTTED ANT LOOKING THINGS!!! THEY ARE *LARGE* MANTIS-FOLK WITH BIG ABDOMENS!!!

GITH SHOULD HAVE THE LEAP ATTACK FEAT!!!

Whew... Sorry, just had to get that off of my chest.

- Ron ^*^

Huh? I didn't say anything about the size of half-giants or thri-kreen... or anything at all about gith.

 

[Najo]

I'd have to agree with rob626, get rid of the uber-NPCs, which seems to be the direction that WoC is going anyway. Make the PCs centeral. However, I hope they don't make it too heroic. The bleakness of the setting is one thing that makes it unique. Andventures could revolve around simply trying to survive.

One thing i hope they don't change is the dragons. Trying to change the setting to fit in with he core-setting would ruin DS. Keep dragons and avions how they are. And dragonborn would not fit in DS.

One last thing- Bards: IMO bards were dumb. Dump the class. If 4e rogues are diverse enough they may fill the gap. Actually what niche did they fill? Why are there poison using musicians?

Dark Sun doesn't have big good NPCs like the other settings. All of the NPCS that are big are ancient and evil.

 

[Najo]

HALF -- GIANTS -- ARE -- NOT -- MAN-SIZED!!! THEY ARE BIG BIG THINGS!!! USE THE HILL GIANT STATS AND BE DONE WITH IT!!!

THRI-KREEN ARE LARGE!!! THEY ARE NOT MAN-SIZED PEANUT-BUTTED ANT LOOKING THINGS!!! THEY ARE *LARGE* MANTIS-FOLK WITH BIG ABDOMENS!!!

GITH SHOULD HAVE THE LEAP ATTACK FEAT!!!

Whew... Sorry, just had to get that off of my chest.

- Ron ^*^

The large/huge half giant is a pain to deal with adventuring. I like the redone 7' tall one. That is teh only thing I would swap out of the original setting.

 

[Sitara]

Yes but no matter how cool it maybe, they are still dragons. dump that idea and invent something new, or just keep them physically human.

Honestly a villain does not need to be a huge beastie to be bad. Sorceror-Kings are the badest of the bad-ass anyway, no need to toss in a metamorsphisis that does not make much sense.

And if they have to transform then have it be something unique, not something that is common in other fantasy worlds. (even if it only be in name and not powers/abilities)

Someone mentioned starwars; I think palpatines 'transfirmation' is a great example of how they should handle a sorceror-kings. The body grows twisted ,vile and corrupted with an aura of frailty as the power of the sorceror-king grows.

Sorceror-Kings =*Thumbs Up*
Dragon-Kings = *Thumbs Down*

 

[Elphilm]

I on the other hand think that Dark Sun's take on dragons is supremely evocative and a brilliant twist on the monstrous power and tyranny that legendary dragons often exhibit.

However, I suppose we all have our pet peeves. For example, in my homebrewed Dark Sun I would eject all of the humanoid races except for humans out of the setting. I would favor the thri-kreen and the aarakocra over elves and dwarves any day...

 

[glass]

And if they have to transform then have it be something unique, not something that is common in other fantasy worlds. (even if it only be in name and not powers/abilities)

Someone mentioned starwars; I think palpatines 'transfirmation' is a great example of how they should handle a sorceror-kings. The body grows twisted ,vile and corrupted with an aura of frailty as the power of the sorceror-king grows.

So, powerfull users of dark magic transforming into 'dragons' (which is pretty much unique to DS) is cliché, but users of dark magic becoming increasing frail as the forces they wield takes there toll on there bodies isn't? Seriously?


glass.