Huh? AD&D 2.5 edition??

[Thondor]

I was doing a bit of digging (I'm doing a economics of media assignment on D&D) an was shocked to see that the 1995 printings of the PHB and DMG, were not just new cover art. Apparently they had 65 and 64 more pages respectively. (arguably the 1993 release of the hardcover Monstrous Manual had 96 more pages -- but that's only if you count only Montrous Compedium Vol 1 and 2).

So . . . what was different between 1989 an 1995 versions? What made a difference of 129 pages? Were there many rule modifications? A lot more fluff? Different interior illustrations? Different layout?

I would think that since I heard so little about it before that there were relatively few rule changes. Am I right? It also seems a strange time to release something, if I remember right things were starting to go sour at TSR around then.

Any comparative information any of you can share is greatly apprecciated.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

It also seems a strange time to release something, if I remember right things were starting to go sour at TSR around then.

These were released shortly after WotC acquired TSR.

 

[jdrakeh]

So . . . what was different between 1989 an 1995 versions? What made a difference of 129 pages? Were there many rule modifications? A lot more fluff? Different interior illustrations? Different layout?

I can't recall anything other than minor error correction in the way of rule changes, though the layout and artwork were both different (and better than the earlier AD&D 2e books, IMHO).

It also seems a strange time to release something, if I remember right things were starting to go sour at TSR around then.

Things at TSR had been going sour since the very early 1980s if the warehouse full of unsold Basic D&D and AD&D 1e products that WotC inherited were any indicator. There were plenty of AD&D 2e products, as well, but I recall Ryan Dancey specifically mentioning boxes full of Mint condition AD&D 1e PHBs and DMGs. The public didn't learn much of TSR's financial woes until the mid-1990s but evidence suggests that said woes took root nearly two decades earlier (possibly when D&D was experiencing the height of its popularity).

IMHO, in light of the revelations made public (such as the stock of the aformentioned warehouse), TSR stands as a shining example of why it is better to let professional businessmen run game companies rather than gamers or IP owners. While it's very tempting to blame the company's demise entirely on Lorraine Williams -- and, to me, there's no doubt that her decisions were the final nail in the coffin -- it seems that the company was already in the hole when she assumed control (or had one foot it in it, anyhow).

 

[jdrakeh]

These were released shortly after WotC acquired TSR.

Actually, they were released in 1995, IIRC. WotC acquired TSR in the Fall of 1997.

 

[Thondor]

I can't recall anything other than minor error correction in the way of rule changes, though the layout and artwork were both different (and better than the earlier AD&D 2e books, IMHO).

Thanks that certainly helps. Can anyone else recall any noticeable differences in the content? anyone actually have both versions to compare?

65 new pages just for new art and layout seems a lot.

On a side note, were interior illustrations mostly colour? Was there a difference between 2e and "2.5e". I haven't ever look inside one. Back in grade 8 before third edition, we were playing 1e.

thanks

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Actually, they were released in 1995, IIRC. WotC acquired TSR in the Fall of 1997.

Check the back of your books. To the left and right of the TSR logo you'll see that WotC is in place of the TSR name on the address line.

 

[jdrakeh]

Check the back of your books. To the left and right of the TSR logo you'll see that WotC is in place of the TSR name on the address line.

Huh. Is it possible that that there was more than one printing of the revised rulebooks? Because my MM has that mark. . . but my PHB does not.

[Edit: I just checked. The MM was published after 1997 (in 1998), while my copies of the PHB and DMG were published in 1995. This, I suspect, explains the discrepency on my books. The latter two bear no WotC mark (I had to dig for the DMG), while the former book does.]

 

[Thondor]

Quite likely. I imagine that any printing after 1997 would have both logos. It's a reasonable explanation. (Not that I have any hard data on there being multiple print runs.)

 

[Orius]

The reprints were just that, reprints. Probably no more different than the original 1e hardcovers and the later Easley hardcovers. I can't really say for sure because I have a late printing of the original 2e PHB (the one with the guys on the horses), and the revised 2e DMG (the one with the ogres instead of the wizard and dragon). The only difference was minor stuff like errata, also a reference in the DMG originally pointing new player to the Basic game was changed to the 2e intro set that was out at the time.

Anyway, the originals had a smaller font and triple columns, the reprints had a larger font and double columns. I don't know how much that contributed to page count, but it probably added some. Plus I think there were more full color art pieces, and full page pieces as well. The reprints were formatted just like the PO books, there was that header at the top of the pages like the PO books, and that took up more space than the headers used in the early 2e books (hardcovers and splats). There's also that page they put at the beginning of each chapter, there's no intro page in each chapter like that in the original PHB.

 

[jdrakeh]

Yep. After some more googling, I discovered that there were, in fact, multiple printings of all three Revised books, some prior to and some after the WotC aquisition (how many, I can't say, but I've found a few collector sites listing "Second Printings" of each Revised core book for sale). I suspect that, if the books were collectibles, it would be easier to find/track that informatiion, though AD&D 2e never really seemed to catch on like that, so it's not

[Edit: Here is a good site that makes reference to various printings of the Revised books, along with pics. The picture of the Revised PHB is a second printing and the pic of the Revised MM is a 7th printing.]