Hybrid Barbarian / Wizard Suggestions

[Mengu]

I think it's workable with a Genasi.

As far as feats go, I'd take Barbarian Armored Agility to shore up your AC. I'd pick Arcane Implement Proficiency Heavy Blade, and probably fight with a greatsword, or Mage's Weapon Full Blade. This also opens up the door for Focused Expertise once you decide on your weapon of choice. Elemental powers are going to become your bread and butter once you pick up Elemental Empowerment.

Depending on how the game goes, and how your party mechanics work, you may need Toughness or Durable. Or maybe picking up some of the Genasi resistances can serve a similar purpose.

I'd stick with Close powers for wizard attacks, so as not to provoke opportunity attacks. For dailies, I'd try to find stuff that helps your barbarian side. Something like Bigby's Icy Grasp or Visions of Avarice can help you pick on targets one at a time, while your spell keeps another target busy. The former would also do pretty good damage thanks to Elemental Empowerment.

I'd grab a barbarian rage that helps more than just your barbarian powers, and does not rely on a tertiary stat. Something like Macetail's Rage would probably be good.

Another route you could go is Eladrin. You could use a pair of longswords as dual implements, as well as Whirling Rend. This character would have a rather different feel than the Genasi above. You could in this case spend a few feats to use your sword as wand, and go with wand mastery through hybrid talent. It would be rather feat intensive (you'll need to spend a feat on leather armor as well), and not quite as durable, but Fey Step can give you an easy way out of sticky situations.

 

[KarinsDad]

Without knowing more, I suggest:

Thanks. This is the type of suggestion I was looking for.

I do see some Cons with this suggestion though:

1) I don't know if the DM will allow feats outside of normal books (beyond hybrid which I explicitly asked).

2) It relies on a specific magic weapon, so that drops a boatload of other magic weapon options, and it forces either the DM to hand out that item, or the PC to take the Ritual Caster feat to craft it. This also means that the PC (starting at level one) will be at a serious melee disadvantage.

3) The F/R/W of the PC goes up by one, but the AC goes down by 2. Granted, Leather Armor could handle this, but that's now 2 additional feats and even more levels before it can even be attempted.

4) Using a quarterstaff is +2 to hit, a heavy blade is +3. Since the PC will have a lower Str than Int, this is an additional penalty for melee.

I cannot see giving up Barbarian Agility because that's part of what makes the concept viable (+4 to +6 AC for a single feat). However on the other hand, a build like your suggestion here does allow other implements at higher levels. It also encourages two weapon fighting feats. Pros and Cons.

I really appreciate your suggestion though. It's ideas like this that I would never think of on my own. Thanks.


Btw as mentioned, I am focusing more on Wizard than Barbarian. The PC will be standing in the back like most Wizards and will use the Barbarian abilities as needed. The better AC and hit points allows the party Leader to concentrate on other PCs more, etc. Although melee is often an option, that is not the focus of the PC. The PC will be concerned with control like most Wizards with the ability to hang tough in melee when necessary. The PC will just have less flexibility than most Wizards and will on occasion, melee (just to use up Barbarian Encounter and Daily Attack powers if nothing else).

 

[ForceUser]

Suggestion: try a Barbarian | Sorcerer instead.

Cheers, -- N

I second this. One of my players ran a Str-based sorcerer and it worked really well.

 

[Klaus]

Thanks. This is the type of suggestion I was looking for.

I do see some Cons with this suggestion though:

1) I don't know if the DM will allow feats outside of normal books (beyond hybrid which I explicitly asked).

2) It relies on a specific magic weapon, so that drops a boatload of other magic weapon options, and it forces either the DM to hand out that item, or the PC to take the Ritual Caster feat to craft it. This also means that the PC (starting at level one) will be at a serious melee disadvantage.

3) The F/R/W of the PC goes up by one, but the AC goes down by 2. Granted, Leather Armor could handle this, but that's now 2 additional feats and even more levels before it can even be attempted.

4) Using a quarterstaff is +2 to hit, a heavy blade is +3. Since the PC will have a lower Str than Int, this is an additional penalty for melee.

I cannot see giving up Barbarian Agility because that's part of what makes the concept viable (+4 to +6 AC for a single feat). However on the other hand, a build like your suggestion here does allow other implements at higher levels. It also encourages two weapon fighting feats. Pros and Cons.

I really appreciate your suggestion though. It's ideas like this that I would never think of on my own. Thanks.


Btw as mentioned, I am focusing more on Wizard than Barbarian. The PC will be standing in the back like most Wizards and will use the Barbarian abilities as needed. The better AC and hit points allows the party Leader to concentrate on other PCs more, etc. Although melee is often an option, that is not the focus of the PC. The PC will be concerned with control like most Wizards with the ability to hang tough in melee when necessary. The PC will just have less flexibility than most Wizards and will on occasion, melee (just to use up Barbarian Encounter and Daily Attack powers if nothing else).

Glad to help.

BTW, the Staff of Defense is a Level 2 item, iirc.

Here's a sample character at level 1:


Human, Barbarian|Wizard 1
Hybrid Talent: Arcane Implement Mastery
Arcane Implement Mastery: Staff of Defense

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 13, Dex 10, Int 15, Wis 13, Cha 8.


AC: 16 Fort: 16 Reflex: 15 Will: 14
HP: 25 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 6

TRAINED SKILLS
Nature +6, Athletics +8, Arcana +8, Endurance +6

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics 0, Bluff -1, Diplomacy -1, Dungeoneering +1, Heal +1, History +3, Insight +1, Intimidate -1, Perception +1, Religion +3, Stealth 0, Streetwise, Thievery 0

FEATS
Human: Hybrid Talent
Level 1: Staff Fighting

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Chilling Cloud
Hybrid Barbarian at-will 1: Whirling Rend
Hybrid Wizard at-will 1: Magic Missile
Hybrid encounter 1: Whirling Frenzy
Hybrid daily 1: Wizard's Fury

ITEMS
Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing), Defensive Staff +1


At Level 2 take Leather Armor Proficiency and your AC goes to 19 (+1 level, +3 Int, +1 Staff of Defense, +1 Staff Fighting, +1 Defensive Staff, +2 Leather), on par with a defender.

 

[ourchair]

I will be playing in a game next year where I wanted to play a Hybrid Barbarian / Wizard, ...

This is SO full of awesome, I don't even care how 'optimized' its mechanics are.

If I were DMing this, I'd give a +4 point buy bonus just because of how awesome this idea is. I can see it now:

"Trogdor the Sagaciously Sadistic, rages into a fury and tears a few spellbook pages and proceeds to stuff them down the throat of the nearby lizardman! Then, he uses his minor action to sustain his flaming sphere and burns him to death! Trogdor bellows, "RAAAAAWWWWRRRR!!!! *clears throat* sim sim sala bim!"

 

[Angellis_ater]

I would suggest equalizing Str and Int, for both the better Fortitude and for better Opportunity Attacks, for example. Str 15, Int 15 and a Genasi works well. I also second Arcane Implement Proficiency and pick Heavy Blades. If you favor mobility, taking a Glaive might be a useful idea (I wouldn't, but it's an idea) since it allows you to stay one square away.

Barbarian Armored Agility is probably the way to go, that I can agree on.

Future idea: Swordmage Multiclass. Once per day you can give yourself a +1/+3 to AC for the entire encounter. I'd suggest aiming for a Bastard Sword so that you can change between one-handed and two-handed style, but alot of people will suggest Fullblades for that d12 + High Crit. If you don't want to spend a feat, go either with Broadsword (+2 prof, d10 damage) or Longsword (+3, d8 damage).

But at 1st level? Barbarian Armored Agility and a sword. Lets you survive long enough to take AIP: Heavy Blades at 2nd level.

If you are aiming for survivability, go Str 14, Con 14, Dex 8, Int 16, Wis 13, Cha 10 and Genasi = Str 16, Int 18.

That should give you something like this:

AC: 18 (Hide +3, Int +4, Agility +1), Fort: 14 (Str +3, Class +1), Ref: 15 (Int +4, Agility +1), Will: 12 (Wis +1, Class +1)

Fair HP and Surges, pretty good survivability, pretty good damage output. Go with Pressing Strike - it's "Shift 2 and through enemies" is mighty useful for positioning.

 

[KarinsDad]

What do people think of the idea of going Paragon Hybrid?

Pros:

Gain both Barbarian Armored Agility and Arcane Implement Mastery.
Gain back the final Wizard Encounter, Daily, and Utility powers.

Cons:

Lose the cool abilities and powers of a Paragon Path.

 

[MrMyth]

I'd vote for a Paragon Path, myself. Arcane Implement Mastery is cool, but not quite enough to make up for what you miss out on.

Angellis_ater covers a lot of the advice I might give. What weapon or style of weapon are you looking to use? (Two-handed weapon, sword and shield, etc?)

 

[KarinsDad]

I'd vote for a Paragon Path, myself. Arcane Implement Mastery is cool, but not quite enough to make up for what you miss out on.

I basically agree. I just asked since there might have been a feat/power combo that would work well with the implements that I was not thinking of. For example, the Staff Fighting / Staff of Defense option listed above has AC 50 at level 30 when combined with Barbarian Armored Agility.

Angellis_ater covers a lot of the advice I might give. What weapon or style of weapon are you looking to use? (Two-handed weapon, sword and shield, etc?)

Longsword used two handed with Howling Strike. With Str 16 and a charge, that's +7 to hit and D8+D6+4 damage or 12 damage on average at level one.

I probably won't bother to waste feats with Powerful Charge or other ways to just boost melee. Getting a shield is also doable, but pricey feat-wise.

I'm thinking of concentrating on area spells, so feats like:

Arcane Implement Proficiency heavy blades, Weapon Focus heavy blades (which helps both spells and melee), Enlarge Spell, Blade Initiate (for the oh shoot moments).

Then eventually, Coordinated Explosion and War Wizardry.


I could go down the Arcane Admixture, Lasting Frost, and Wintertouched path during mid-Paragon in order to get multiple Scorching Bursts to sometimes be +2/+3 to hit and +5 more damage, but I don't think it is worth it for 3 feats.

 

[Destil]

Another option is to take a double scimitar. If you have 13 Dex you can use it for Dual Implement Spellcaster, it's stout so you can used it for the two-handed barb at-wills and it's defensive. Plus you get high crit when using it as an implement and have the option of two-weapon defense.