Hybrid mixes?

[Garthanos]

I have a lot of character concepts for whom reapers touch works nicely...
the power in my game world is called "Conjurers Blade" or "Summoned Rune Weapon".. objecting to having it restricted is not about needing melee training, it is about ones power being ones weapon and similar flavorish things I suspect.

It isnt pure flavor there are mechanical repercussions, these Rune Weapon wielders can use feats like white lotus riposte which enhance arcane attacks ... using melee training doesnt give me that. This is very much an example of a feat which a character concepts get developed around (restricting it to a racial archetype counts as nerfing in my book).

 

[keterys]

There is a big impact on 'Feycharger' style builds, it's true... but I'm not sure that's entirely a bad thing? End of the day, everyone should be about more than using the same at-will 1-4 times per round, every round, every combat.

White Lotus feats do work with at-wills regardless of whether those at-wills can be used for charges or opportunity attacks. Yes, I like my warlock better with reaper's touch, and I'd like him even better with Eldritch Strike instead of Eldritch Blast, but he's still totally playable with Melee Training instead. Or no melee attack at all.

Just like if I were playing a Battlerager and the DM wanted to use that update, I'd either adapt the character or just make a new one, but I'd never leave a gaming group over it. That just seems crazy to me.

Not that there's been a rules update here. Again, the original article, the compendium, and the character builder _all_ work for non-shadar kai, so preemptively freaking out about it seems counterproductive.

 

[Garthanos]

using a non-melee arcane attack at melee range = begging for a smack down isnt it? I dont have to worry about a fey chargers right now... Eladrin teleporting is one of the few 4e features that I cant easily skin to fit my game world... ;-(.

Gaming groups are too precious to leave over anything short of personality issues...

 

[keterys]

My warlock triggered OAs all the time before I got reaper's touch. More hellish rebuke damage and marks triggering, all around. Good times!

Wizards, sorcerers, invokers all have 'close' attack options for if they get too surrounded, as well as easy options for avoiding OAs (feats for the sorcerer in particular, but also shimmering robes and such). And honestly... just provoke sometimes.

And you probably would just not be in melee as much without the feat, let's be honest. When charging in doesn't somehow add a few extra dice of damage, somehow you just play like normal.

 

[Garthanos]

And you probably would just not be in melee as much without the feat.

Likely not... because of all that provoking you are non-chalant about ;-).... the feat selection is saying you are designing the character with being in the thick of it, in mind so --- I sort of build a somewhat different styled sword mage out of the deal. Its also skinnable as a Soul Sword.

Wierdly I like it's "weaponless flavor" somewhat better than the sorcerors dagger. (even though the usability with all the sorcerors ranged powers makes that ability technically better)

Effectively bringing some of the flexibility of the ranger who is a distance striker and/or a close range striker to some other classes... is kind of cool.

Eldritch Strike which we do allow to swap in (in place of Eldritch blast) is pretty useable.

Arent those fey chargers usual swordmages? Actually though I think when I was induced to investigate the things the only consistant thing I recall was that they were Eladrins.(no reaping strike).

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

I think the Warden|Ranger is a nice hybrid for Tempest Fighter replacement: 6HP a level, you can mark one adjacent enemy as a free action, you can get Font of Life with a feat, you have Twin Strike and full quarry damage on it. You don't get the TWF rangers Two Blade Fighting Style, but a double weapon doesn't need it.

 

[Caliber]

I created a pretty fun looking Feylock|Chaladin that I'd like to use. Focused on ranged attacks (I think his Paladin at-will was his only melee ability); the idea was to Mark at range then attack using Warlock abilities, maybe even going invisible with Eyebite. Make it a hassle to get to me, but make it suck to not attack me. Haven't gotten to play him yet though (and also, DP has come out since I first wrote him up, so he could probably be fine tuned with it now ...)

 

[Stuntman]

I created a pretty fun looking Feylock|Chaladin that I'd like to use. Focused on ranged attacks (I think his Paladin at-will was his only melee ability); the idea was to Mark at range then attack using Warlock abilities, maybe even going invisible with Eyebite. Make it a hassle to get to me, but make it suck to not attack me. Haven't gotten to play him yet though (and also, DP has come out since I first wrote him up, so he could probably be fine tuned with it now ...)

I'd be interested in hearing how this actually works in practice when you play him. There is a Hellock-Chaladin in my group and I found that he ends up in melee often that he does not have the opportunity to use his ranged attacks. Much have been discussed about the Divine Challenge/Eyebite combo. My feeling after seeing the paladin-warlock in my group is that the DC/EB combo does not do enough to discourage the enemy from going after your allies. The damage from DC is not much of a deterrent unless it is a minion. A -2 to attacks can still hit if the enemy is not targetting the paladin instead of his allies.

 

[keterys]

Well, it's positively mean when you have something like Hospitaler on the paladin cause not following the mark is near impossible at a certain point.

That said, I think things like a Con-based shielding or assault swordmage with hellish rebuke and eldritch strike (why, yes, twofold pact is a beautiful thing) is pretty scary.

 

[renau1g]

I've played a bard|barbarian (skald) and also a warden|sorceror (cosmic) (flavoured as a mystic warrior). Both were/are good fun.