D&D 5E Hypervelocity bards (WAS Fixing the bard's action economy (quick suggestion))

[FormerlyHemlock]

The bard is doing an optimal using of its action, bonus action and reaction.
A round is long enough to walk 30 and make 1 to 5 attacks.
RAW consider 6 seconds, but it can take more.
A bard is also a master of arcane magic. Magic can be surprising.
And finally note that the cherished Warlord will need to do as much use of its actions to be effective.

Yes, the Warlord (and the Mystic) have similar issues. Illustration:

Mantle of Command
Avatar Discipline
You exert an aura of trust and authority,
enhancing the coordination among your allies.
Psychic Focus. While focused on this
discipline, when you end your turn and didn’t
move during it, you can use your reaction to
allow one ally you can see within 30 feet of you
to move up to half their speed, following a path
of your choice. To move in this way, the ally
mustn’t be incapacitated.

By "exuding an aura of command" you can "use your reaction" to move people around the battlefield like chessmen. Outside the metagame terminology of "use your reaction" and the vague handwave of "exuding an aura of command", it gives no explanation for what you are doing to speed up your allies. It's as meaningful as "by using your knowledge of haute cuisine, you expend your reaction to allow one ally to move up to half their speed..." Neither trust nor knowledge of fashion has any business enhancing one's movement rate.

It's nonsense. Very similar to the bard's problem. Neither one is defined in role-playing terms.

 

[TwoSix]

It's always nice when I find threads that remind me how happy I am I stopped being a simulationist.

 

[Krachek]

Yes, the Warlord (and the Mystic) have similar issues. Illustration:



By "exuding an aura of command" you can "use your reaction" to move people around the battlefield like chessmen. Outside the metagame terminology of "use your reaction" and the vague handwave of "exuding an aura of command", it gives no explanation for what you are doing to speed up your allies. It's as meaningful as "by using your knowledge of haute cuisine, you expend your reaction to allow one ally to move up to half their speed..." Neither trust nor knowledge of fashion has any business enhancing one's movement rate.

It's nonsense. Very similar to the bard's problem. Neither one is defined in role-playing terms.

DnD is full of non sense. Stop digging, you will just find more.

What we have to care about is the impact in game play of the action economy.
Allow to move a character outside is turn is time consuming in term of game play.
Allow to make him attack is even worse, especially if we add use of maneuvers, Ki, Smite or other features.
If we want to keep the flow and paste of combat simple we need to take care of that.
Remind me of 4ed when I just start moving a monster, and 10 minutes later I was able to complete its move after an endless cascade of interrupt.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

DnD is full of non sense. Stop digging, you will just find more.

What we have to care about is the impact in game play of the action economy.

This does have an impact on gameplay.

Bob: I'm using Mantle of Command to move Fred behind the Ogre.
DM: [looks nonplussed] Okay, you [mumble mumble] and Fred, you're now behind the ogre.
Fred: Wait, what happened?
DM: I dunno, the rules just say you're now behind the ogre because he spent his reaction.

No, thank you. Not if I can avoid it. I hate situations like this and I'd rather just preclude them from occurring. In this case that means overriding "the rules" and not allowing the Mystic as written in the campaign.

 

[Waterbizkit]

Not to continue to derail the thread with the new example of the Mystic and Mantle of Command, but I think it's a poor example to illustrate your point. It's just my opinion of course, let's make that clear, but I see no narrative issues with the action resolution for the example you've provided.

Now my medical knowledge is quite poor, it's simply not an area of interest for me, but I imagine that when you move from Point A to Point B there's a lot going on in your brain, just not necessarily in the foreground of your thoughts, I doubt many people walk about thinking "Left foot. Right foot. Left foot. Right foot." Anyway, given the overall nature of a Mystics powers, that is their mind imposing itself on people and the world around them, I could easily see something like Mantle of Command being the Mystics thought processes taking the place of their allies

In short, the Mystic thinks it and you do it. So instead of you going through the mental and physical process of say... getting up from your desk to go get a cup of coffee I think it for you and your body reacts as if it was your idea. It's almost like a form of domination, which is why I think some people have an issue with it mechanically, because the powers allow the Mystics player to move their allies around and so technically without their input on the matter.

I don't know, I just don't see thesame narrative issues you do with the Mystic. As to the original topic of the Bard, while that's certainly more of a stretch when it comes to figuring out what's going on in the narrative after a Bard takes so many actions in a given turn, I tend to lean towards what others already said: it's all being done simultaneously. One rhyme or limerick or bit of a song that casts the spell, inspires the ally and insults the enemy.

Either way I can't say this have ever been an issue for me or my group, but if it's an issue for you all the best in trying to find a solution that makes the experience more enjoyable without potentially putting people at your table off from playing a Bard because of restrictions that you've come up with.

 

[Krachek]

This does have an impact on gameplay.

Bob: I'm using Mantle of Command to move Fred behind the Ogre.
DM: [looks nonplussed] Okay, you [mumble mumble] and Fred, you're now behind the ogre.
Fred: Wait, what happened?
DM: I dunno, the rules just say you're now behind the ogre because he spent his reaction.

No, thank you. Not if I can avoid it. I hate situations like this and I'd rather just preclude them from occurring. In this case that means overriding "the rules" and not allowing the Mystic as written in the campaign.

They should have state a "willing ally" as in Bening Transposition.
I remind you that it is playtest material, and the survey is actually online.

 

[Staffan]

Nope -- I'm not talking about weapons at all, or weird loopholes. None of a, b, or c is relevant.

Spellcasting focus is a musical instrument (PHB 53). Has nothing to do with the tool proficiencies in musical instruments (PHB 52), which are the instruments you know how to play (except when using the perform skill, which is another weakness). Focus requires one hand, which can be the somatic components hand (PHB 203), but has nothing to do with being able to play it.

I get that it's not that big a deal for others, but it's such a lazily written rule (in that there is no way to explain what is going on in the game world with the bard's arcane focus without special pleading or handwaving) that for me, I have to hold my nose and look the other way.

Sure, I'll give you that lute + sword is a bit weird (that's why my bard character uses a horn). But you said "this is all being done while holding a shield". That's not true, because if you wield a weapon and a shield you can't also wield an instrument (either as a focus or as a, well, instrument). Nor can you cast any spell that requires somatic components, unless you "cheat" via War Caster or something similar.

That said, I think it would be fair for valor bards to have a rule that said they can cast somatic spells while wielding a weapon and a shield (perhaps they thump their weapon against their shield or something like that, and consider that a musical instrument for the purposes of arcane focus). After all, they do get shield proficiency and are supposed to be the "fighty" bards, but almost all bard spells require somatic components.

 

[ProgBard]

(ahem)

Here is the all-time loser
In tight high water pants
He sees his minions pop off
Getting stomped like ants

We're the all time winners
We have you by the - gnards
Soon you're gonna be buried
Under your own front yard

(bad-ass flute solo)

If you haven't played a bard named Jethro, you're...way too young.

This example also illustrates that is is absolutely possible to sing (or speak, for that matter) and play the flute at the same time.

 

[cbwjm]

They should have state a "willing ally" as in Bening Transposition.
I remind you that it is playtest material, and the survey is actually online.

They already need to be willing. If they don't want to move then they don't spend their reaction. Simple as that. No one is being moved against their will.

 

[Krachek]

They already need to be willing. If they don't want to move then they don't spend their reaction. Simple as that. No one is being moved against their will.

In fact elementary, dear Holmes,