Hypothetical Spiderman 3 villain

[stevelabny]

i had this conversation recently.
my conclusion

kraven/mysterio in 3.
yes, it falls into the batman-trap, but I think you can pull it off with one movie

Venom in 4. Venom has to be in on of them. And Carnage shouldnt be.

Harry-goblin (as or with Hobgoblin) in 5.

and Spidey 6 has to be aganst the SINISTER SIX. lizard, sandman, hydroman, electro, rhino, scorpion. And of course theyd be led by either Norman, Harry or Doc Ock, depending on how you wrap up the previous movies.

I think in order to make this work, the sinister six should have tiny little fight scenes in the earlier movies. even if its just an opening scene under the credits. showing what spidey is doing "in between" major movie plotlines.

 

[Umbran]

I think the point we've been trying to make here, though, Umbran, is that there are a lot of shallow villains that can be either henchmen or simply slugfest type villains that make up part of the movie but don't require real development.

IMHO, stuff and nonsense. If the character is worth yearning to see on screen, that character deserves a solid treatment. If you don't really yearn to see the character, then nothing is gained by forcing him into the scrip merely as a nod to the old comics.

It's a little tricky to pull off, as the Batman movies generally show, but in theory it can be done.

Yeah, but the movie industry is based in America, not Theory. Theory is a tiny little place, with these heinous work-visa regulations...

The thing is, we probably only get one shot at this for our generation. Screw 'em up, and you're stuck with mediocre Spider-Man movies.

Which is not to say the filmmakers should not take risks. But they should take calculated risks for big payoffs. Stuffing more villians in to get a "Neat!" from the audience is a minor payoff. If the folks who write teh story get this earth-shattering idea of how it'd make the story more cool, then okay. But for merely the chance to see what Electro looks like on the big screen? Nah.

For the record, it seems Sam Raimi agrees with me...

"Sam Raimi, who directed the upcoming sequel film Spider-Man 2, told SCI FI Wire that he contemplated pitting more than one adversary against Spider-Man (Tobey Maguire) before settling on just one: Doctor Octopus (Alfred Molina). "Well, there were a lot of different iterations of the story, and at times there was more than one villain, and at times there were more than two villains," Raimi said in an interview. "But it all came down to trying to focus on what I felt was the strongest aspect of the film and diminishing everything else so that it could live."

Raimi, who would not specify what other villains he considered, added, "The strongest aspect of the film is Peter Parker [Maguire] and his journey to becoming a responsible young man. So after we had one villain to test his mettle against and to be in conflict with Spider-Man, I found that there were diminishing returns for the second and third villains, since our real story was an interior story, this journey to be a human hero, how Peter Parker battles the problems of being a hero, how he copes. The more villains that we added into the mix didn't seem to make the story richer and stronger. It seemed to diminish [it], in fact."

 

[argo]

If they really are serious about doing six movies then green goblin 2 is inevitable as is some mix of venom/carnage. That said I nominate Lizard to get at least one movie all to himself. Not only will the fights look cool but the Peter Parker/Doc Conners relationship will provide some good script mateiral and Doc Conners' situation, with the lizard form destroying his happy family life, makes a nice foil for Spiderman's situation. I agree the the focus of a Spiderman movie needs to be about this Parker kid who wears a funny outfit and what that means for his life, not just about flashy super-battles. I would also add Kingpin to the list but apparently that aint gonna happen.

I do agree though that some sort of opening montage of Spiderman fighting henchmen like scorpion would be cool. Maybe something like a bunch of newspaper front pages with big pictures of Spiderman and villan in "knockout punch" pose then pull back to Jameson tossing the papers on his desk and ranting about Spiderman while Parker stands in the background with his camera around his neck and a smirk on his face. Do it fast enough and the lay people in the audience won't have time to get confused. Do it at the beginning in a sort of in medias res style and you don't have to worry about interupting the flow of the move like the Batman flicks did.

 

[Stone Angel]

6 show story arc wow. I think that we can count on seeing Harry as a Goblin whether gg 2 or hobgoblin, venom, lizard. Rhino is a little iffy, carnage iffy, but I know that some of my favorite issues of old spidey were when he was up against a villian that was really out of his league. Say the Juggernaut for example.

I have a buddy that owns a comic store here in Indy, and he says that in the 3rd one that there would be a guest cameo and that would either be Thor, Iron Man, or Namor. Now my "buddy" is a little bit of a fisherman tale teller so this could be a fake, but he does have a cousin that works out in Hollywood in the movie buis. He was able to go to the final Matrix Premier, and the Kill Bill 2 premier. So he could be lying or could be telling the truth. So please no harsh reactions just letting some other fans know what may be the truth or one mans wishful thinking. Take it with a grain of salt please.

 

[Plane Sailing]

For my money, the Lizard would be the most interesting villain, laden with possibilities. Another outside possibility would be JJJ and the spidey-slayer things.

 

[Taelorn76]

In my previous post I mentioned how they could bring in Venom, I think a way to bring the Scorpion could be some rich industrial company(ie Oscorp, or a competitor) could create him to hunt Spiderman. Scorpions and spiders are natural enimies. So someone could mechanicly create him ala Doc Oc, or mutate him on a genetic level. Side effect is that the proccess slowly drives him insane. I know it's a streach but you never know.

 

[Desdichado]

As a kid, I always was nervous when Spidy went up against Doctor Doom. It was made pretty clear back then that Doom could pretty much wipe the floor with Spider Man and so anytime Doom was on the cover of a comic I got a little scared.

I'd like to see Spider Man 3 with Parker getting his butt handed to him by Doc Doom, which would make a tie-in to 4.

Only problem with this is apparently they're making a Fantastic Four movie with Dr. Doom as the nemesis. Although Spiderman (and others) frequently had crossovers of their villains, it really doesn't make sense in my opinion to bring a traditional FF villain into the Spiderman franchise. Or a traditional X-Men villain either (someone mentioned Juggernaut.) In the comics, even, those were just one-off battle type things.

 

[Desdichado]

IMHO, stuff and nonsense. If the character is worth yearning to see on screen, that character deserves a solid treatment. If you don't really yearn to see the character, then nothing is gained by forcing him into the scrip merely as a nod to the old comics.

Batman is the example of doing that badly, but X-Men is the counter example. A profoundly ensemble piece with several heroes and villains both, and new ones in the second chapter (and presumably again the third) but which still concentrates on the human issues of a handful of core characters.

Just because Sam Raimi hasn't hit upon the right combination of a movie that has more than one villain and still concentrates on the human issues of Parker's life doesn't mean that it can't be done. And not just in theory; I think X2 is still in the running for one of the best traditional superhero comic book movies ever made, and it has more super characters than you can shake a stick at.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Well, considering how much time it takes to make a movie, esp. considering whether particular actors are available for certain roles or not, I'm trying not to think about any movies beyond #3 (I didn't really think too much about #2 until it was a certainty).

I think the theme of Spider-Man's actions coming back to haunt him is a theme within SM2--i.e., Harry Osborn's involvement with the whole Doc Ock thing. Otherwise, I'd think this would be a great thing to focus on in a third movie: have a major villain who recruits a lot of the other villains that Spidey put away (perhaps Rhino, Shocker, Electro, Scorpion, etc.) and sends them after Spidey in an effort to get rid of him once and for all. However, other than GG or Dock Ock, I can't think of any villain who'd really be viable &/or available for this sort of thing: I could see Kingpin doing this, but there's franchise issues with him; Venom seems to be a DIY-kind of guy, and not a leader.

Then again, IMHO it'd be a bit refreshing for Spidey to face a villain who never learns his secret identity--that was one of the big things that got old with me in the Batman franchise.

 

[Umbran]

Batman is the example of doing that badly, but X-Men is the counter example. A profoundly ensemble piece with several heroes and villains both, and new ones in the second chapter (and presumably again the third) but which still concentrates on the human issues of a handful of core characters.

I disagree. The X-movies have been fun, but they are profoundly ensemble pieces wherein the majority of the characters are profoundly flat. By comparison, the character development is pread wafer thin in the X-movies. If the human issues were the primary focus, they would not have left two-thirds of the classic love triangle without any notable depth of personality. As far as I can see, across two movies, the only character to have shown signs of change in response to events has been Magneto. Everyone else is, as best we can tell given only small amounts of information, the same people they were before the events of the first movie.

To my mind, the X-movies are each like a single issue of a good comic, in terms of character and story development. They're action flicks, with stories focused upon a sequence of events that occur to a group of people. The first Spider Man movie was akin to a trade collection of 6 or so issues. The story here was focused upon the effects events have on the hero. We shall have to wait and see if the second movie keeps the same focus.