I’m Thinking of Giving 4e Another Shot

[Nivenus]

Despite the moral issues brought up by it, I think that FR's solution to the afterlife is actually a pretty good one. It too has always bothered me that the worshipers of good gods call to nice, fluffy heavenly places and those who worship evil gods go to hellholes.

The idea that the evil gods also reward their followers is a lot more interesting in my mind, and also makes more sense frankly. I mean, seriously, except for the sake of card-carrying evil why torment for all eternity your most loyal followers? Anyone who reads the Evil Overlord list should know better .

 

[Ariosto]

Mallus, Samuel Leming has provided more information since the first post, and indicated that Dausuul grasps the issues at hand.

 

[Dire Bare]

Despite the moral issues brought up by it, I think that FR's solution to the afterlife is actually a pretty good one. It too has always bothered me that the worshipers of good gods call to nice, fluffy heavenly places and those who worship evil gods go to hellholes.

The idea that the evil gods also reward their followers is a lot more interesting in my mind, and also makes more sense frankly. I mean, seriously, except for the sake of card-carrying evil why torment for all eternity your most loyal followers? Anyone who reads the Evil Overlord list should know better .

I'm not sure if it still works this way, but it always bothered me that a relatively nice athiest/agnostic person in the Realms faces enternity built into a wall of undying people and that worshipping an evil god is actually a better choice when all is said and done.

I always looked at evil gods "hold" over their worshippers as this, "You know you are already going to hell anyway, worship me and I'll let you off easy *evil laughter*"

Tricking souls into hell is a time honored tradition for those evil gods!

 

[Primal]

Heh, as I first read through this section I thought, "Simply replace the words "martial power source" with "ki power source" and you're happy? But then I realized, that's basically how I view the martial power source. In your mind, replace the word "powers" (for the martial classes) with "abilities". It can be liberating. Daily abilities are simple martial techniques your character can pull off anytime due to his training. Encounter abilities are harder abilities that require more planning, more demanding physicality, and the right conditions to pull off effectively. Daily abilities are like encounter abilities, but even more so! I also look at dailies (and some encounters) as a semi-mystical use of chi . . . or ki. You have only so much inner reserves of strength to pull off the truly badass moves. If using "ki" instead of "martial" helps, go for it.

This is exactly my own problem with the martial power source, i.e. emphasis on "cinematic stunts" that I just cannot wrap my mind around -- I *could* call them special "techniques" empowered by Chi/Ki, but that doesn't work for a "typical" D&D character in a pseudo-medieval setting ("How does my 1st level farmboy-turned-adventurer know how to pull off these stunts, if it would take years of martial arts practise in RL?"). It's not just about 'Split the Tree' -- I couldn't imagine how it works when a rogue uses, say, 'Blinding Barrage' on a group of Ghosts or Golems, or when a ranger uses 'Hammer Shot' on the same creatures.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

I had the same issue getting with girls back in high school but luckily I kept trying and have greatly enjoyed the experience ever since.

Yeah, but did you just keep trying with the same girl forever? To continue the metaphor, it's like the OP has gone on four dates with 4e, where he discovered he didn't like her personality, her opinions, her appearance and her tastes. Now he's going to try again. I'm suggesting he should go on a date with the girl he already knows he likes.

 

[Oni]

Yeah, but did you just keep trying with the same girl forever? To continue the metaphor, it's like the OP has gone on four dates with 4e, where he discovered he didn't like her personality, her opinions, her appearance and her tastes. Now he's going to try again. I'm suggesting he should go on a date with the girl he already knows he likes.

But...but...but he can change her.

 

[FireLance]

Most flumphs are lawful good. These are specific flumphs who've been hanging around with a bad element.

Right. And I suppose the same goes for the metallic dragons and the couatl in MM2?

 

[MrGrenadine]

About martial powers...

I agree with the OP about martial powers in 4e, so I'm working on a couple different systems that would make all martial powers usable at will. Neither is a perfect solution, I know, but for those like me who feel that martial powers shouldn't be vancian, they may spark some better ideas.

Both of these ideas are based around the simple assumption that powers expend energy: At Wills expend a small amount of energy, Encounters put a strain on the user, and Dailies are downright tiring.



(1) Encounter and Daily powers can be used at will, but the character takes a cumulative -2 penalty each time an Encounter power is used after the first usage, (-2 for the second attempt, -4 for the third, -6 for the fourth, etc.). Dailies can be re-used at a cumulative -4 penalty, (-4, -8, -12).

These penalties are for each attempt, not each successful usage.

OR

(2) Encounter and Daily powers can be used at will, but each power can only be used if certain conditions are met. At this point, I'm thinking Encounters would need two conditions met in order to function, and Dailies would need three or four, although its probably best to assign logical conditions to a power based on its effects and power, without sticking to a formula.

There are a lot of conditions, and its taking some work assigning conditions to each power, but as a for instance, here's the Fighter Daily 01 Flanking Assault:

Flanking Assault - Fighter Attack 01
(fluff text)
Martial, Weapon
Conditions: Flanking an enemy that you have already damaged, with at least one additional ally adjacent to the target.
Target: One creature you're flanking
Attack: Str vs. AC
Hit: (etc.)


There are hundreds of possible conditions, but some possible ones are:
Flanked, or is Flanking
Last Attack hit (missed) the same target
Target was hit (missed) by an ally in the same round
Critical Hit
Bloodied, or Target is Bloodied
Granting Combat Advantage, or Target is granting Combat Advantage
Dazed, Stunned, Marked, Blinded, Prone, Deafened, Dominated, Dying, Restrained, Slowed, or Helpless,
or Target is Dazed, Stunned, Marked, Blinded, Prone, Deafened, Dominated, Dying, Restrained, Slowed, Weakened or Helpless
Surprised, or Target is Surprised
Target is Petrified, Immobilized or Unconscious
Target is vulnerable or resistant to X
Adjacent to 1 (or more than 1) Enemy
Adjacent to 1 (or more than 1) Ally
Wielding Melee Weapon
Using Ranged Weapon
Wielding an Axe
Wielding a Sword
Wielding 2 weapons
Wielding a Blunt Weapon
etc,
etc.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I've found the best way to deal with the martial powers is, really, just to not think of them. Let them be a game-only mechanic; it's alright! I'm pretty damn "simulationist" myself. In essence, I refer to the power when I make the roll, then fluff out what actually happens afterwards. It's no different from saying "I attack" before rolling the dice. Either way, you aren't dictating something happening in game, you're saying the mechanics of what you're character is doing, and then giving it the nice fluff cover.

So you the player know that you can use the power once, but the character doesn't even know the power exists. To him/her, it's just a spur of the moment technique he pulls off.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

But...but...but he can change her.

This thread is going places.