I admit it...

[Gellion]

I grew up on video game RPGs. I have noticed how a lot you here here often denounce games like the Final Fantasy series. Or just say something is too video-gamey. Well, i into D&D during 3E. So i have not been playing long. And i know my opinion of fantasy settings is influenced by many video games RPGs. The first ever video game RPG i ever played and beat myself was Final Fantasy 9. I am not sure how many of you here have ever played it, but to me, THAT was fantasy. With cities like Alexandria, and Lindblum, or even Treno, the city of the night. Or Terra, and the city of Bran Bal.

Even earlier i remember watching my older brother make his way through Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete. Even though i did not play it, the game, and world invoked such a sense of wonder in me.

I am ot quite sure why i went on this little tangent, but i just sort of wanted to let everybody know, that video game RPGS were what i grew up on, and that they can just be as fantastic, and have just as good plots as P&P games. I guess i just had to get my feelings about the issue out in the open.

 

[LightPhoenix]

I grew up on video game RPGs. I have noticed how a lot you here here often denounce games like the Final Fantasy series. Or just say something is too video-gamey. Well, i into D&D during 3E. So i have not been playing long. And i know my opinion of fantasy settings is influenced by many video games RPGs. The first ever video game RPG i ever played and beat myself was Final Fantasy 9. I am not sure how many of you here have ever played it, but to me, THAT was fantasy. With cities like Alexandria, and Lindblum, or even Treno, the city of the night. Or Terra, and the city of Bran Bal.

Even earlier i remember watching my older brother make his way through Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete. Even though i did not play it, the game, and world invoked such a sense of wonder in me.

I am ot quite sure why i went on this little tangent, but i just sort of wanted to let everybody know, that video game RPGS were what i grew up on, and that they can just be as fantastic, and have just as good plots as P&P games. I guess i just had to get my feelings about the issue out in the open.

I believe (though far be it for me to speak for everyone) that the phrase "too video-gamey" refers to the fact that there's an ideology that an RPG can be "won". Add to that the fact that most console RPGs (and the majority of computer ones too) are quite linear, and there you have the derision.

And as a random aside comment, FF9 was by far my favorite of the PSX era FF games.

 

[Gnarlo]

Human nature. I've noticed and I'm sure most other people have as well that there are a lot of people that think anything they are not personally interested in is stupid, childish, or silly. Thinik of the web chart that gets linked to from time to time that shows the geek heirarchy, and how each class of geek finds another type of geek to look down on; this would be a case of the D&D geeks looking down on the video gamers.

It's just like TV or movies or books; like what you like and don't give a flying what anyone else thinks about it. And I agree with you, a lot of the CRGP out there have far more interesting and intelligent plots that darn near any game I played in in high school, and a lot of the college ones

 

[Gellion]

And as a random aside comment, FF9 was by far my favorite of the PSX era FF games.

Yeah, FF9 rocked.

I still dont see why a lot of people hated it.

Maybe it was because the main hero was actually relatively happy most of the game.

Oops, i am going OT.

*Puts thread back on track*

 

[ThoughtBubble]

I think about my group (ex-group now) being far to videogamey often. Videogamey comes in different flavors, but most are tough and stringy.

Videogameyness comes out in the general expectation of a cool story, dramatic plot events, amazing battles and moral dilemmas without any work or choice of the part of the players. It typically comes about as a result of emulating the style found in RPG videogames (most notably the Final Fantasy series). Calling something videogamey is not a slight against those games, but rather, a categorization of this style.

For videogamey players, this comes out in a set of behavior I describe as "Pushing the A Button". At its base, this comes out where the player walks up to something, and expects it to run automatically. It also shows up in players who view NPCs as either obsticles or plot devices. Finally, there tends to be an expectation on the DM to characterize a character for the players.

With a videogamey DM, this tends to come out in a long, overarching plot with the fate of the world hanging in the balance. The plot is mapped out from day one. There tend to be many big, important, powerful NPCs. Often the NPCs tend to go around with the characters, and tend to be the driving factor in decisions. There are often "cutscenes" where the players have little to no control over what's happening, and this is often when all the important/dramatic stuff happens. Monsters have a tendancy to fight to the death in every encounter, and tend to use limited, if any, tactics. Most dungeons/areas have some sort of stronger "Boss Monster" in charge. The boss monster almost always is waiting in the room just before the goal.

I've been a videogamey DM, DMed for videogamey players, played with videogamey players, and played under videogamey DMs. In every situtation, whenever things got viedogamey, I got bored.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Hey, I've been doing CRPGs almost as long as I've been doing actual RPGs. How can anyone forget Zork, Pool of Radiance, Bard's Tale, and the Ultima series? The major issue in my eyes is that people need to recognize the difference between them. Since CRPGs limit what you can do via the programming, people assume that an RPG should do the same thing - that there shoul be parameters that you can't break out of. The truth is that the RPG was created to allow your character the freedom to do whatever you want them to do (at least within the confines of physics or whatever passes for them in the game).

Another major thing that is lacking in most CRPGs is actual character development. Most of them have a predetermined path that you take, or the more advanced ones have a number of paths based on the decisions you make, which eventually translates to some sort of reputation score. In any event, even with a reputation score, it is very hard for a computer game to give you a real sense of who your character is, which is something the standard RPG definitely gives you.

Of course CRPGs and the Internet give you dynamic graphical representations of your characters, a player base that is always ready, and play that doesn't take hours of preparation to run. They both have their strong points.

 

[Gellion]

Well, thanks for clearing up what too video-gamey meant guys.

 

[Wormwood]

Two weeks ago we started a new campaign with the sole purpose of emulating one of our favorite Neverwinter Nights servers.

Resting on demand, insanely broken magic items, etc.

We're having a lot of fun, and the Roleplay Rolice have yet to knock down our door and serve us a Cease & Desist order.

 

[francisca]

Hey, I've been doing CRPGs almost as long as I've been doing actual RPGs. How can anyone forget Zork, Pool of Radiance, Bard's Tale, and the Ultima series? The major issue in my eyes is that people need to recognize the difference between them. Since CRPGs limit what you can do via the programming, people assume that an RPG should do the same thing - that there shoul be parameters that you can't break out of. The truth is that the RPG was created to allow your character the freedom to do whatever you want them to do (at least within the confines of physics or whatever passes for them in the game).

Another major thing that is lacking in most CRPGs is actual character development. Most of them have a predetermined path that you take, or the more advanced ones have a number of paths based on the decisions you make, which eventually translates to some sort of reputation score. In any event, even with a reputation score, it is very hard for a computer game to give you a real sense of who your character is, which is something the standard RPG definitely gives you.

Of course CRPGs and the Internet give you dynamic graphical representations of your characters, a player base that is always ready, and play that doesn't take hours of preparation to run. They both have their strong points.

Good response! And don't forget rogue/nethack, and MUDs.

I'd also like to add that many object to the idea of D&D being a sprint from one power-up to the another, despite the fact level-based play seems to lend itself very well to it. Having just pointed out that paradox, I count myslef among those who dislike that style of play in table top RPGs. But hey, if you and your game group enjoy that type of game, more power to you! Don't let some 30-something old grump (like me) tell you how to play the game.

 

[Bloodstone Magi]

I got into RPGs due to two video games: Final Fantasy VII and The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. My older brother, who was into Final Fantasy/Zelda but has now lost interest in them, got the games when they came out. I remember being so absorbed into both games, especially Final Fantasy VII (which, in my opinion, is the best Final Fantasy ever...but I like chibis). I would get emotional whenever a character would die in the storyline. Final Fantasy VII is also the only Final Fantasy I've ever completed so far (because I'm such a loser).
Later on, Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Baldur's Gate fueled my interest and propelled me further into the world of RPGs...I remember playing those games past 2:00 AM, while my friend Chris read through stacks of AD&D books he had shoplifted from a local bookstore here (he was a 'bad kid'). Brave Fencer Musashi was another favorite...man, those games take me back.

Final Fantasy IX is a great game. Vivi is the best.

Cheers!