I am forseeing problems with feats

[Raloc]

As already posted by Merlin.



There are plenty of reasons why acting in a surprise round is incredibly advantageous to any member of a group.



You're going beyond simple exaggeration (I could sleep for a year... I could eat a horse... etc) into the realm of absurdity.

Yes, that's known as hyperbole. Perhaps you've heard of it?

 

[JohnSnow]

So, using a single generic point that are intended for all characters to use is exactly the same as a feat requiring a specific class (since pp are for psionic characters) and using more of that class's specific energy pool than any of it's special class abilities?

That's completely absurd.

While I agree the example is completely absurd, it's fairly clear to me that by pp, he meant "platinum pieces." Which any character can have...

Not that the example becomes any less corner-case. The feat in question, on the other hand, addresses a situation that is FAR from corner-case.

 

[The Little Raven]

Yes, that's known as hyperbole. Perhaps you've heard of it?

Complaining that "I have to spend an Action Point just to stand up? What a gip!" is hyperbole, because it exaggerates the point. Complaining that "Spending Action Points to activate a special ability is just like having to spend gold on activating a special ability" is not hyperbole, because you're not exaggerating, you're attempting to draw a link between things that are otherwise unrelated in purpose... and plus, hyperbole is intended to be taken seriously, but you expect people to take your objection to Action Point use on a feat like this seriously by resorting to absurd arguments, so even if you were properly using hyperbole (which you're not), you'd still be absurd.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Nope. Not in 3.5. Just max HP at level 1. Toughness gives you +3 HP. And Improved Toughness from Complete Warrior gives you 1 bonus HP per level or HD.

The new 4e Toughness feat does both at once. Of course, if 4e is anything like SW Saga you will now get 3x starting HP which may explain where the base of +3 is coming from.

Its effectively just Improved Toughness though. You get 1 per HD in both. You get an extra 3 in 4th edition because you get an extra 3 HD.

 

[Raloc]

Complaining that "I have to spend an Action Point just to stand up? What a gip!" is hyperbole, because it exaggerates the point. Complaining that "Spending Action Points to activate a special ability is just like having to spend gold on activating a special ability" is not hyperbole, because you're not exaggerating, you're attempting to draw a link between things that are otherwise unrelated in purpose... and plus, hyperbole is intended to be taken seriously, but you expect people to take your objection to Action Point use on a feat like this seriously by resorting to absurd arguments, so even if you were properly using hyperbole (which you're not), you'd still be absurd.

Point, you, whoosh!

 

[The Little Raven]

While I agree the example is completely absurd, it's fairly clear to me that by pp, he meant "platinum pieces."

While it may have been clear to you, it obviously wasn't to me. PP is the abbreviation used for psionic power points, as well, so saying "spending 50 pp on an ability" could reasonably lead one to believe that was being references (since both AP and PP are used to activate abilities).

Which any character can have...

But that doesn't change the fact that the intended purpose of currency (platinum pieces) and Action Points are completely unrelated, and conflating the two is not hyperbole, because it isn't an exaggeration.

 

[The Little Raven]

Point, you, whoosh!

You frame an objection in such a ridiculous way that it can't be taken seriously, then incorrectly try to identify it as a linguistic technique, when in fact, it is not.

So, in your own words...

Grasp of the English language, you, whoosh!

...or whatever.

 

[Wepwawet]

Now, I've noticed a tendency for this thread to get rather silly...

I think 4E needs a grammar-related feat:

Golden Grammar Adept
Tier: Paragon Epic
Benefit: If you spend an Action Point you can name all figures of speech used in the encounter. Each will grant you +10 bonus on attack rolls

or something...

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

I don't really see the lack of prerequisites as a problem. In fact, I kind of hope that there are NO feat prerequisites in 4e other than character tier (as is implied by the fact that Golden Wyvern Adept doesn't require any wizard powers despite being useless without them). Between talents and powers, I'd say they've got plenty of hierarchical ways to build up character power, so feats can become something a lot simpler rather than the entire focus of some characters' builds, like fighters in 3e.

A different issue I foresee for feats in 4e is this: it seems like "Class training" (which is sort of like multiclassing and may or may not replace it entirely), racial feats, paragon paths, and epic destinies are ALL vying for your limited "feat" slots. So I'm wondering if there will be ANYONE taking "normal" feats, when they could be grabbing a cool racial ability or cross-class power instead.

 

[Gundark]

As Mike said himself a while back now, you are only seeing one tiny portion of the game, without being able to compare it to all other aspects.

Once the rulebooks come out, we shall see how things are looking.

It's in my sig.