D&D 4E I bought GURPS 4e!!!! (and returned it the next day)

[langolas]

I didn't like GURPS or the Hero system because it was ALL numbers based. Everything had a mathematical formula, everything was point based, and unless you had been around since first or 2nd edtion, or were a math major you really coudlnt' pick it up. I used the hero-maker software and the GURPS one, and I still don't know how most of it works. any game that REQUIRES a graphingcalculator (Ok, maybe just scientific one) is a pass for me.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I didn't like GURPS or the Hero system because it was ALL numbers based. Everything had a mathematical formula, everything was point based, and unless you had been around since first or 2nd edtion, or were a math major you really coudlnt' pick it up. I used the hero-maker software and the GURPS one, and I still don't know how most of it works. any game that REQUIRES a graphingcalculator (Ok, maybe just scientific one) is a pass for me.

I dunno - GURPS only uses addition, subtraction, and multiplication (including the knowledge how to calculate percentages). True, GURPS Vehicles mentions cube roots somewhere - but only as a purely optional rule.

Over here, the knowledge of math you require would be assumed to be common knowledge after the sixth grade of school. "Math major"? I think not...

 

[Talon5]

This isn't surprising, considering how DnD is the more popular system. (No offense to GURPS fans.)

None taken.

Always thought that GURPs didn't take off because of how public D&D was- stronger, bigger company.

GURPs needs a number of things- we house ruled Blunt Damage- getting in a fist fight won't kill you if you survive the fight, but it can slow you down.

Not real familar with d20 but I have seen nothing about location shot- SWAT guy wants to take out a criminal, he ante gonna do it if they guy has lots of hp, but in GURPs give the sniper a couple of seconds, a clear shot and the guy is going down.

We played a Time/Dimensional Travel campaign for years, crossing Psionic, space travel, magic, spirits, horror, everything but Super Heros and we had not one real problem, try that with d20- won't work.

GURPs is great when you take the time to learn the system, when you know it, and your players know it.

It's a great system and I look forward to learning 4.0e

Oh, one other thing they have over d20- an on line Q&A guy- Sean Punch, smart and knows the rules better then anyone, willing to help you hash out "What if-" situations.

Later

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

But the full setting book will be written by Ken Hite, Author of the Suppressed Transmissions column in Pyramid Magazines, GURPS Horror, Nightmares of Mine, and too many other cool stuff to mention, as well as the guy who was called "a freaking lunatic" by no less than John Tynes (of Delta Green fame).

Hrm. I kept subscribing to Pyramid to read Suppressed Transmission. Then it went to biweekly, and then to whenever he had time, and then the other articles got to be useless and annoying, and I felt that the message boards were pretentious as all heck. So, I bailed, though, surprisingly, I still get the table of contents for each issue e-mailed to me every week.

If I'd thought about it, I would've unloaded at least my core GURPS books at the used bookstore before 4e came out. I might get 4e, but I don't really feel like plunking down $75 for two books I KNOW I won't use.

It's a pity, since it looks pretty decent, albeit with a quick look through. One quibble I had was that they just lumped all the skills together, where they really could have used some separation (Combat skills, at least, should all be in one place).

Brad

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That said, I can't recall any instance of character conversion due to different subsystems. And I play multi-genre a lot. I guess it was hyperbolic.

No, no hyperbole was involved.

Problems actually arose when PCs generated under one subsystem had similar powers to a second subsystem, and yet had a different point total or power level.

Somehow, players who paid more points for less power felt ripped off.

 

[LavosBacons]

getting in a fist fight won't kill you if you survive the fight

oic

 

[Breakdaddy]

I've never had a player say to me that the system has too many rules. I've introduced 30+ people to the Gurps system without problem. Maybe I got lucky and found really, really intelligent people.

I have heard many complaints about the GURPS core rules being too complex from many gamers. I have wanted to play GURPS 3e for years and the common response to my requests was that they didnt want to play a system like GURPS with all the rules (optional or not) in the core book. On the other hand, perhaps your subtle insinuation that myself and my players are dullards incapable of comprehending the arcane words inscribed within the sacred GURPS core books is accurate. In such a case, my hat is off to the supra-geniuses that game regularly at your gaming table.

 

[wingsandsword]

We played a Time/Dimensional Travel campaign for years, crossing Psionic, space travel, magic, spirits, horror, everything but Super Heros and we had not one real problem, try that with d20- won't work.

Maybe you aren't looking at the right place in d20. Go look at d20 Modern, it has all the elements you are looking for, even in just the few official books from WotC released so far. Breaking it down:
Psionics: In the d20 Modern core book, slightly elaborated in Urban Arcana
Space Travel: In the d20 Future suppliment for d20 M.
Time/Dimensional Travel: In d20 Future.
Magic: In the d20 Modern core book, heavily elaborated in Urban Arcana.
Spirits & Horror: The d20 Modern Core book, with lots more in the Menace Manual and Urban Arcana, and even a bit of d20 Future (the "Dark Heart of Space" setting).

 

[Reflex]

I have heard many complaints about the GURPS core rules being too complex from many gamers. I have wanted to play GURPS 3e for years and the common response to my requests was that they didnt want to play a system like GURPS with all the rules (optional or not) in the core book.

But is GURPS really that much more complex than D20? I sometimes wonder if it's actually a case of D20 being a more familiar system due to its influence on so many other games. Granted, making a character in GURPS is more involved because choices aren't broken down into a relatively small group of archetypes, but what is considered the 'core rules' surely contains more material than GURPS?

The problem I had with GURPS was more one of characters starting to look far too similar. Are there still only 4 stats, all of which tend (by necessity) to be rather low? Is Dex still far and away the best stat?

I tremendously enjoyed a Shadowrun game I played in that operated under the GURPS rules. I also found GURPS Martial Arts to be incredibly cinematic and yet relatively 'realistic' feeling. But my experience with all the characters ending up looking like clones of one another soured me on the system pretty quickly.

HERO (to this day arguably my favorite system for character creation and fun combats) clearly inspired much of GURPS, but while I feel GURPS handled gritty campaigns far better, it still lacked the character diversity that Champions seemed to foster. Certainly part of that can be attributed to the variety of characters possible in a superhero game, but since GURPS really did seem to emphasize lower power games, it just seemed that it could have made its area of focus feel more diverse than it did.

If 4th Edition really addresses that, I might be interested. If I'm still going to end up seeing 14 Dex characters that skimp on strength and buy P/E skills up to make called shots (making those low strengths irrelevant) and PD up to block incoming attacks (needing the same advantages to do so), I'll pass.

 

[coyote6]

I haven't been able to get into d20 Modern; I just can't dig it. I don't like the way it handles automatic weapons, I don't care for the martial arts, nor many aspects of the skill system (to name a few things that bug me). I much prefer GURPS (or Hero, or M&M, or even Call of Cthulhu or Unknown Armies) for modern/future adventures.

Plus, I still haven't figured out how one knocks a foe out in a d20 Modern fistfight.

The cross-dimensional game Talon5 mentioned would be nigh-impossible to replicate with any fidelity in d20 Modern; the characters are very experienced, which gives them a wide array of skills and abilities, which would require so many levels in d20 Modern that it would probably take Epic-level monsters from D&D to really challege 'em -- which would be an entirely wrong feel.

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The new 4e books are nice. Punch & Pulver (& co.) did an outstanding job*, and the books are damn pretty. Great job, Phil.

And, so far, no trouble with the bindings on my copies.

*I won't mention the armor weights.