Pathfinder 1E I get the feeling Paizo isn't worried about Wizards of the Coast.

[ImperatorK]

But with Paizo, that's only half of the equation. If you are running a Pathfinder AP, the writers may use all of the books for their monsters/NPCs. As the GM, you then have to understand what it all does.

What is stopping you?

 

[DaveMage]

What is stopping you?

Time.

 

[Mournblade94]

I ran the Murder in Baldur's Gate as a next playtest. With the same players I am running Legacy of the Crystal Shard as Pathfinder (Called 3rd edition for the encounters legality).

I am getting the feeling more and more that I am not going to want to leave pathfinder for next. Since I am lucky enough to have the same group of players I have had for encounters the last year, they all want to compare it to Pathfinder.

The character concepts they have just created are enough to make them want to play Pathfinder.

 

[Zardnaar]

Heh my Pathfinder players will try OSR type retroclones but they are not interested in D&DN. The local uni club of 60 odd players is mostly Pathfinder/Vampire now but they are letting me run a 1st ed or Castles and Crusades game. The head cheese basically dismissed D&DN as 4.5.

 

[gamerprinter]

Are we talking about rules bloat or product bloat because they are two entirely different things and it seems some posters are using them interchangeably in this thread when they aren't.

EDIT: As an example... pawns and maps were cited as part of the product bloat but they add absolutely zilch to rules bloat.

I don't see the product bloat problem, but then I've never needed every single release from any company. I love Pathfinder, but I use my own settings, so Golarian is meaningless to me, as well as most of the APs. I don't ever need a pawn - already got miniatures I use, thus pawns are meaningless. And I'm a pro cartographer that runs his own digital print shop, so products like maps and map packs are also something I never need from the publisher (and consider that I created the City of Kasai map for Paizo Publishing - thus I create some of the map work that Paizo's selling...) I do like the APs and have picked up one or two so far for idea generators, but I mostly create my own adventures (I publish adventures too). So I generally have needs for what I can't do as well myself, but since I have some very capable skills - most of the add-on stuff outside of rulebooks is extra and unnecessary. It isn't bloat if its something that is not needed at all to play the game.

For the collectors out there who want to be complete, the process will get expensive (the need to buy all the product). I'm not a collector, though, so its not an issue for me.

 

[gurpsgm]

Paizo is the new 600 Pound gorilla

I don't know what it is, but I get the feeling that Wizards of the Coast are worried about Paizo and Pathfinder, but Paizo isn't worried about Wizards of the Coast. I've never really gotten the impression that Paizo is trying to pull customers away from D&D over to Pathfinder. It's like the company is so comfortable in their own skin that they just continue forward without a care in the world what Wizards does.

Now I could be wrong entirely, but that is the impression I am under.

Oh, come now, everyone. Anyone who doesn't think that Paizo has beaten TSR/WotC/Hasbro needs a reality check. 4th Ed stuff is selling for half-price at my FLGS, and there's no compatible discount for Pathfinder. In point of fact, there's almost nothing that TSR/WotC/Hasbro has ever done that Paizo is not doing. And, in most cases, doing better. The new "Rise of the Runelords" card game is a great example. And I understand that Paizo is going to do a dice related game, but how close it will be to "Dragon Dice" remains to be seen. Now, you can tell by my nick that I'm not a huge fan of either. I'm just saying that when I had a GURPS campaign ready, I got no potential players. Ditto for 4th Ed, and ditto for the playtest 5th Ed. But when I switched gears and proposed a Pathfinder game, I got plenty of potential players.

"The" GURPS GM

 

[Morrus]

Oh, come now, everyone. Anyone who doesn't think that Paizo has beaten TSR/WotC/Hasbro needs a reality check. 4th Ed stuff is selling for half-price at my FLGS, and there's no compatible discount for Pathfinder. In point of fact, there's almost nothing that TSR/WotC/Hasbro has ever done that Paizo is not doing. And, in most cases, doing better. The new "Rise of the Runelords" card game is a great example. And I understand that Paizo is going to do a dice related game, but how close it will be to "Dragon Dice" remains to be seen. Now, you can tell by my nick that I'm not a huge fan of either. I'm just saying that when I had a GURPS campaign ready, I got no potential players. Ditto for 4th Ed, and ditto for the playtest 5th Ed. But when I switched gears and proposed a Pathfinder game, I got plenty of potential players.

"The" GURPS GM

4th Edition? You may be a couple of years behind on the news! 4th Edition hasn't been in production in a long time.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I'm not surprised that 4E stuff is discounted, while Pathfinder stuff is not.

Every time a publisher announces a new edition of their RPG the sales rapidly drop away for the current edition. If Paizo put out a new edition of Pathfinder then I'd expect to see the same thing happen to the older edition Pathfinder products.

 

[GameOgre]

I am loyal to my friends and our time together.

I am not loyal to a set of game rules or a business.

I run Pathfinder because its the most fun(best adventures and support while giving plenty of character options) at our table despite being Rules heavy and bloated.

If any other rpg had that same level of fun(best adventures and support while giving plenty of character options) but with less crunch,we would be playing that.

If we were not loyal to Dungeons and Dragons after decades of playing it and having the most fun,I doubt we will be (loyal) to Pathfinder either.

Play what is fun.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Oh, come now, everyone. Anyone who doesn't think that Paizo has beaten TSR/WotC/Hasbro needs a reality check. 4th Ed stuff is selling for half-price at my FLGS, and there's no compatible discount for Pathfinder. In point of fact, there's almost nothing that TSR/WotC/Hasbro has ever done that Paizo is not doing. And, in most cases, doing better. The new "Rise of the Runelords" card game is a great example. And I understand that Paizo is going to do a dice related game, but how close it will be to "Dragon Dice" remains to be seen. Now, you can tell by my nick that I'm not a huge fan of either. I'm just saying that when I had a GURPS campaign ready, I got no potential players. Ditto for 4th Ed, and ditto for the playtest 5th Ed. But when I switched gears and proposed a Pathfinder game, I got plenty of potential players.

"The" GURPS GM

Interesting, my FLGS still gets quite a few people for D&D Encounters with 4e rules, but they haven't had enough interest for them to have a PF game in their store.

I'm not a big fan of PF or 4E, and I know many people who also don't love 3e, 3.5e, PF or 4e. The only regular gaming I do now is with an online group, and I'm pretty sure nobody in the group is wedded to 3e, 3.5e, PF or 4e, and I think we play 4e because it's the easiest for a DM to prepare, and nobody wants to go back to the complexity of 3.5e.