I got to playtest Castles and Crusades!

[nsruf]

So the playtesters and people of TLG made it quite clear that C&C is not rules-light d20. But how rules-light is it going to be compared to D&D/d20? I would still be very interested in a faster D&D-style game, even if it is not compatible with my other stuff.

And is there any chance a sneak peek will be available before August?

 

[Joseph Elric Smith]

So the playtesters and people of TLG made it quite clear that C&C is not rules-light d20. But how rules-light is it going to be compared to D&D/d20? I would still be very interested in a faster D&D-style game, even if it is not compatible with my other stuff.

And is there any chance a sneak peek will be available before August?

Well with out being able to site specifics, for our group the games mechanics allow things to move at a faster pace then using 3rd edition. as for getting a sneak peek, well you can pop over to the TLG board and send off an nda and see if they pick you. also there have been several games of it run at various conventions, or if you are near VA beach VA feel free to come by on any saturday, and I'll let you join the game, though you will have to sign an NDA
Ken

 

[Maggan]

A double-posting fanboy I

Sorry about the double post. Message follows below.

M.

 

[Maggan]

A wandering fanboy I

SO that people can know some thing good is coming down th road? If I see a great movie but don't want to spoil the plot, don't I still tell you it is a great move but just not spoil it? So it is with C&C While we are currently limited in what we can say, because of the NDA that doesn't mean we can't express our enjoyment of the game we are playing.
And what is wrong with being a fan-boy? Passion is a good thing, so why is it wrong to be a fan of something?
Ken

In my opinion (and I think buzz would agree) being a fan of something is not wrong. We are all fans of roleplaying games, of D&D, most of us (give or take a few grognards, you know who you are. And so do we!) are fans of 3e, and so on.

That's ok.

But what really puts me off a game is a fan extolling its virtues by slamming or deriding other games. Or a movie. Or a book.

I've seen so many people say "my game is better than your game because your game does this and this wrong."

Instead of saying what your own game does right. Ok, the infamous NDA prevents people from speaking about the mechanics. But maybe we can hear more about what it enables them/you to do, game-wise?

Preferrably without jabs at other games. Games that a lot of us enjoy immensly.

And to put things into perspective. Haven't we all heard claims of "this game is amazing, and it can do anything your game cannot do" a lot of times, before the game is even published? And when (often never) it is published it proves to be yet another roleplaying game.

It's terribly hard to reinvent the roleplaying genre, and with the information from some playtesters in mind, I'm expecting nothing less of C&C.

Is C&C up to that? Or are fans building expectations that will not be met?

I guess we'll see in August. But until then, let's hear more about what the C&C rules enables you to do. And less about what 3e won't "let" you do.

Cheers!

Maggan

 

[Henry]

Observations from reading Gary's Story Hour (write-up):

Typical AD&D races (humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, etc.) Based onthe names, I'm presuming halflings have regained their "hobbit" inheritance.

Split multiclassing (i.e. the 4th lvl fighter/ 4th lvl thief, elf fighter/mage, etc.) Sounds like the 1e/2e concept, perhaps with more options than the 1e version, but given that the examples are very much the 1e/2e classic types, it's hard to say.

A 6th level cleric of Odin that can cure wounds and cure disease. Nothing different from the 1e/2e/3e versions there.

(From Shadow's report) ability scores that are very reminiscent of Basic D&D (the -3 to +3 scale), and six (or five, no one has confirmed either) saving throws. Also, feats and skills are done away with, as abilities are gained by class level

If I had to guess (and this is total speculation, right or wrong, based on hints I've gleaned from the public Troll Lords forums), we'll see a cap on hit dice gained with level, and older-style initiatives. However, we may see AC's that scale upwards, Base attack bonuses, and the clerical undead turning may more resemble 3e than 1e/2e.

Or, I'm wrong, and these items are dumped as well in favor of the older methods.

 

[gideon_thorne]

Quite right. We should be able to promote the C&C game without bagging on other systems. All of which do have their pluses and minuses as any fan of any system can tell you.

Looking past all the mechanics, numbers and various other rhetoric, I can say this about C&C. The game is designed to let people play, and the rules themselves are designed to get out of the stories way as much or as little as needed. But suggested options on how to expand the rules for each individual game group will be presented. What is offered is a framework for everyone to build out of the system much of what they want.

Flexable and minimalist have been the design mantra since the begining.

Course the system isn't going to be perfect. But from what I see on the TLG boards is that it satisfies a large number of disparate tastes and styles at least the majority of the time.

Anyone who cares to make it up to Milwaulkee Gamefest can stop by the Troll Lords booth and have a chat with the trolls themselve. I am not 100% certain on this, but the plan is to have previews available for people to look at.

We are all fans of role play each in our own way. This is quite correct as well. What C&C has as a philosophy is to show people what we think is a good way to present the game. Hopefully people will enjoy the end result.

But as with any game, you get out what you put into it. Now a lot of people have put much time and effort into creating this evolving system. Some of us can get a bit passionate about it, *wry smile* but try not to take it personally.

Peter

C&C Artist

 

[Fiffergrund]

My apologies for not answering this sooner:

My intent in my original post was threefold:

1) To try to dispel the notion that C&C is "D20".
2) To paraphrase the philosophy behind C&C's design.
3) To express how much better I find the game than the alternatives.

While phrases like "detached designers" and the like might be taken as an attack on a particular game, this is not how it was intended. I was merely making an observation that game designers sometimes slant games toward one particular style of play.

I was also referring, in my experience, to the tendency of players (especially new players) to let game designers, in effect, tell them how they should play the game. To some degree, this is unavoidable, but I don't think the fostering of a need for "official rules" for everything has been good for creativity in the hobby.

This statement was meant to be reassurance that C&C *doesn't* do these things. It was not meant to reflect a judgment on any games, designers, or styles of play. To each his own.

I prefer C&C's play and approach to that of ANY other related alternative. This statement, in itself, is not "slagging" other games, just stating that C&C has surpassed them, in my view. C&C does not need to make other games look defective in order to stand out, and this was not my intention.

 

[Henry]

One of my final comments for now on this: If it can please the following netizens: Sieg, Ska, Fiffergrund, and Gene Weigel (who have some pretty diverse 1E play styles), and yet NOT be a carbon copy of 1E/2E, then I will be very, VERY interested in seeing the results.

 

[dcas]

I'm not sure that Gene is pleased.

 

[WSmith]

One of my final comments for now on this: If it can please the following netizens: Sieg, Ska, Fiffergrund, and Gene Weigel (who have some pretty diverse 1E play styles), and yet NOT be a carbon copy of 1E/2E, then I will be very, VERY interested in seeing the results.

The results will be most interesting.

Here are some things I can say, In my tests, combat was fast. Character creation, for me at least, is very fast. It was very refreshing. Like Fiff et. al. said, it will not be d20 lite, BUT I think the d20 fans who were looking for d20 lite will not be disappointed.